Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australia/Archive1

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Contents 1 Smaller WikiProjects overlap 2 SJ Fletcher 3 Userbox 4 Importance and quality ratings 5 Advance Australia Fair 6 One banner to rule them all? 7 Platypus 8 Hi all 9 Azrael, 10 Churches/Places of Religious Worship in Australia 11 Steve Irwin 12 Stubby coolers and Australiana 13 Bill O'Reilly 14 Change of Southern Gold Coast Articals 15 Australian Literature 16 Uluru and Kata Tjuta 17 Local Government Area inconsistencies 18 I'd Love To Join 19 Resource - Foundation Documents 20 Requesting help on Cave Clan 21 Libraries Australia 22 Project directory 23 Copyright question 24 Bodyline 25 Australian literature articles 26 Requested move 27 Separate pages for colonies? 28 WP:FA suggestion 29 Sydney Riot of 1879 30 Eureka Stockade 31 Jonestown 32 Brabham 33 Geo protocol 34 Wikipedia Day Awards 35 WP State Projects 36 Biography project 37 Australia-org-stub 38 Joining the project 39 Pat O'Shane Article 40 Shire Councils 41 Photos needed for Stubby cooler and Australiana 42 Standards for A-class articles 43 Dannii Minogue article 44 Shiraz grape article name 45 Protected edit request at Template talk:Collab-australian 46 Pages might need work 47 WikiProject Australian Science 48 John Funder 49 Henry Croft 50 All Nations Park 51 Request for information 52 Photo request 53 West Island, Cocos (Keeling) Islands 54 Climate Change and global warming - Causes, Solutions, Effects of Global Warming on Australia, 55 Lists of people 56 Railpage Australia 57 Links to Illustrative Virtual Tours & Photography Q's

[edit] Smaller WikiProjects overlap

This WikiProject provides some overlap with the smaller established projects. I'm starting this discussion to best determine how to have all Australian WikiProjects exist in harmony. Kirill Lokshin suggests on my talk page the military history model was the merging of smaller projects into task forces dedicated to core topics. I'm not strongly in favour of any major changes like this before seeing what others think. Firstly I see us needing core topics to begin with. Work began on this at the AWNB last week. As for the rest of the content here, feel free to edit and correct whatever you deem necessary to bring the system home. -- Longhair 03:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

For articles which don't relate to any Australian WikiProjects, I've added the orphan=yes parameter to {{WP Australia}}. See Talk:Advance Australia Fair for an example. Its use is optional. -- Longhair 01:27, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SJ Fletcher

If this article is part of your project I suggest that this article is one too! Just a heads up! :) Trampikey ^{(talk to me)(contribs)} 14:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

My mistake. I've removed the notice. -- Longhair 01:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Userbox

- I've made a Userbox for those Userbox people, if you want to use it it's User WPAustralia --bdude Talk 06:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I've made a slight edit to it so it makes more sense. Froggydarb 07:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Good work. Perhaps somebody can give the {{WPAustralia Navigation}} template an overhaul to use some Aussie colouring? It's on my todo list but it's priority is slipping fast :( Any takers? -- Longhair 07:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Will do tonight. --darkliight^[πalk] 07:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Done. I've removed the alternating colours, because alternating green and gold sent my dog blind and he can't even see colour! Also, I used a slightly lighter green than the one used in the userbox so you could see the writing a bit better. Let me know if you think anything needs changing, or just go ahead and change it (or revert if it's that bad). Cheers --darkliight^[πalk] 13:51, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

It looks great. I tried the green and gold combination myself and agree it's difficult to find a good match which doesn't test the eyes. You've done well. -- Longhair 23:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Importance and quality ratings

How are these actually supposed to improve content, wouldn't these acutally be more useful in the project space rather than in the talk space?--Peta 06:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advance Australia Fair

Ok, not sure where to stick this, but can we use stuff from here to help out in the above article? I am hoping to make this article good, but I need some help. Thanks. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 08:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] One banner to rule them all?

Should the project banner replace all the subsidiary WikiProject notices (ie, {{WPANotice}}, {{WPAL}} etc)? Also, surely there isn't any point in having separate assessments for subsidiary WikiProjects, as is happening with {{WP Geelong notice}} and {{WP Adelaide notice}}?--cj | talk 07:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I thought about this happening, but my focus for now has been getting the project and template working towards everyone's satisfaction. Assessments has raised some discussion. The template parameter already allows for sorting articles by project and also provides for each WikiProject to select an appropriate image to represent and link to themselves. One drawback to having this banner replace the others is the smaller projects lose control over their own to-do lists, though with changes to the template code there may be a way to enable a custom lists based on the project selected at the time. -- Longhair 01:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

After reading this again, I admit I used the Geelong WikiProject as a test case for these assessments. I'm happy to bring the projects I manage under the same banner. It makes good sense to contribute to the one overall statistical count. -- Longhair 05:43, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I dont see a problem with two banners, this one and a more focused group banner, if there were more, then only the 2 highest importance rated ones. That importance scales for this compared to the focus group will be different. The only real concern is that both assessments on the quality scale are the same. Gnangarra 06:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Platypus

Dear members

An article with your banner on it, Platypus, is about to go down the gurgler in the FAR/C room. Anyone care to contribute to fixing up the article? Tony 11:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi all

Frustrated with the lack of decent information about daytrips/weekends away and travel in my region, i decided to start a [on south east queensland]. If anyone is willing to help me fill out this shell, go for it... and i also just found out this porject existed, so i might put my two cents in.... cheers, Ryan

The best place to do that is at Wikitravel. See the Queensland page for a starting point. Nurg 03:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azrael,

Hi Recently, Azrael was created because it was # 2 on the "Wanted articles" page.

Every page that linked to that article was a talk page with the WikiProject Australia template 'WP Australia on it.

Is that the real intent on the "create" section of the to-do list? --Garrie 02:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Further to my previous post - 1948 Queensland Railway Strike has overtaken it with 4406 links.

On talk:Azrael (Band), the conversation is:

I created this article because it was #2 on Special:Wantedpages. If it isn't notable, it shouldn't be anywhere near the top 100 on that list. Youth in Asia 14:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, you're right. My bad entirely - I thought that the band seemed nn because of a lack of releases. I'll take off the notice. Sorry! Ruaraidh-dobson 14:57, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I filled bug #6896 about this issue. Comte0 23:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Churches/Places of Religious Worship in Australia

After the recent deletion of what I and some others considered to be a well-known church in Sydney, I think it's time that we came to a consensus on what constitutes notability for a church in Australia - I use "church" coming from a Christian background, but presumably notable synagogues, mosques, etc should also probably be included in this. While notability for churches as a whole might be a good idea, I'm mindful that Australian white settlement, being only 200 odd years old, doesn't lend itself to the kind of historical value that church articles in England or the US might have compared to here. I think there should be some guidelines on what constitutes a notable church or place of religious worship in Australia. I think there should be more to it than a church simply having an historical value. The church, after all, is the people, not the building, so I think large churches in terms of congregational size, and not necessarily church building size, should be a factor for inclusion in this. I'm still trying to think of some categories for notability - obviously we don't want church articles reading like advertisements, as there should be encyclopaedic value to the articles; yet at the same time I don't think the view that some WP articles are taking, that any church article where the building is not historic is spam and should be deleted, is right either. I'm grateful to anyone for some views on this. (JROBBO 03:46, 15 August 2006 (UTC))

Ultimately the primary way to prove notability (even though it's not a guideline) should be with multiple reliable references. If those exist, then the subject is by (my) definition notable. I'd suggest that the main guideline should be to not create stub or "directory" style articles about churches, as these will end up in AFD. So my suggestion of a "criteria" is that there should be sufficient reliable references to support an article of at least 4 or 5 paragraphs (ie too long to include within a suburb article). For older churchs the easiest references to find would be in local history books, for newer churches (if they're truly notable) it shouldn't be too hard to find references in newspapers and the like. If no one can find reliable references then I think it would be fair to dispute that the church warrants its own article. -- Mako 05:06, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

If someone, or a group of people are able to produce a quality article about a place of worship, then let it stand. When wikipedia can cover some very esoteric subjects without the bat of an eyelid, I think a community gathering place like a church can have it's own article deservedly. SauliH 02:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Steve Irwin

Due to current media attention I expedited a review for this article. I've awarded this good article status and consider it close to FA quality. It's still listed as a b-class article in your project. Please reevaluate. Durova 17:23, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I would be very grateful if some Australian English native speakers will help in reaching a consensus on the Steve Irwin talk page regarding the usage of while and whilst. thank you.Kamikaze 10:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

• Several Australian editors have written there and our views have been all but ignored. Either word is OK; "whilst" is probably not archaic in Australia but doesn't read well with snorkelling and doesn't read well with the majority of readers (Americans), so why persist with it? An assertion of sovereignty over the article on this matter does not seem necessary.--Golden Wattle ^talk 20:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

well, maybe I just came to the wrong place here.Kamikaze 20:38, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't "read well with snorkelling" ... Golden Wattle, you've lost me there. Why should it read worse with snorkelling than with anything else? As for while vs. whilst, I've written about all I have to say on that on the Aussie English Talk Page. Jimp 02:49, 6 November 2006 (UTC) ... P.S. Okay I went to the Steve Irwin Talk Page. It seems that the argument is that it's harder to pronounce: /lsn/ vs. /lstsn/. Yeah, only in careful speech, though; in ordinary casual speech you'd normally drop the /t/ anyway. Jimp 03:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Thus isn't the point that in Australia we would say "while snorkelling"? This was in the context of Steve Irwin not reading while snorkelling :-) --Golden Wattle ^talk 09:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stubby coolers and Australiana

I have created two articles which may be of interest to this group, Australiana and Stubby cooler. Feel free to edit them mercilessly. Regards Parasite 07:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The list of comanies now associated with Australiana (eg Arnotts, Mortein, XXXX, Akubra) are all owned by forien corps. In fact, that's were I got the list from. Please feel free to add some well known Australian companies to this list that are still Australian owned. Oh, and a picture of australian art would be nice too. Thanks Parasite 08:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bill O'Reilly

Discussion is ongoing at Talk:Bill O'Reilly as to whether the Bill O'Reilly page should redirect to the commentator, the cricketer, or neither. Your input would be appreciated. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 04:09, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Change of Southern Gold Coast Articals

I think it might be a good idea to merge the Southern Gold Coast articals into 1. {I mean Tweed Heads to Broadbeach} We might turn 10 stubs into 1 FA. Nathannoblet 08:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Why? I don't see any point in merging every article on every suburb or town on the Gold Coast just to make one super-article. Every unique subject is deserving of it's own article in an encylopedia, and towns are unique. Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian places might be interested in your proposal, but I don't think it'll happen. -- Longhair\^talk 09:56, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australian Literature

Article in the Australian

Is the state of Australian literature on Wikipedia as bad as this article makes out? --Martyman-(talk) 08:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes - the conversation is at Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians_notice_board 19 Australia Literature content on Wikipedia lambasted in the Australian SatuSuro 10:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

These are all the Western Australian literary types I could think of off the top of my head, by alphabetical order:

Mary Anne Barker, Paul Buddee, Gavin Casey, Peter Cowan, Jack Davis, Henrietta Drake-Brockman, Mary Durack, Robert Drewe, John Ewers, Nicholas Hasluck, Paul Hasluck, Dorothy Hewett, T. A. G. Hungerford, Elizabeth Jolley, Seaforth MacKenzie, George Fletcher Moore, Dryblower Murphy, John Boyle O'Reilly, Katherine Susannah Prichard, Jack Sorensen, Randolph Stow, Ric Throssell, Arthur Upfield, Tim Winton.

More than half are blue links, and most of the articles aren't too bad. Granted some of them, e.g. Hasluck, focus on achievements other than literary. But I don't think literature is lagging all that much behind other Australian content. Let's not panic, folks. Hesperian 11:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Its not so much panic - it needs some consistent work to clear the red links. The good thing about some that you quote above - they have ADB entries - or relatively easy online material available about them SatuSuro 11:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uluru and Kata Tjuta

There has been a minor revert war on Northern Territory about the naming of these places between myself and an anon editor, who has now given reasons for his/her changes. I have called for a debate on Talk:Northern Territory and hope we can reach consensus. --Bduke 22:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Local Government Area inconsistencies

Is any project overseeing the development of the LGA articles? My question arises form inconsistencies with the way Queensland articles have been arranged in contrast to other states?

Look at Mount Isa, Queensland. In South Australia, and NSW a seperate article would exist for City of Mt Isa. A review of Category:Local Government Areas of Queensland shows how many LGA links direct to town/city pages. Contrast this with Category:Local Government Areas of South Australia, and you get the picture of how different things are.

hence the question about a project overseeing LGA's SauliH 03:10, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I was just thinking the same thing. I have today moved a couple of LGA articles to their gazetted titles. e.g. Augusta-Margaret River, Western Australia -> Shire of Augusta-Margaret River, based on the fact that the gazetted name is the latter. We should be:

1. entitling LGA articles according to their actual gazetted names, which are invariably of the form "[Shire|Town|City] of Whatever".
2. taking care to distinguish between links to an LGA and links to a town/suburb of the same name.
3. removing articles about towns or suburbs from the LGA categories (except for articles that purport to cover the LGA too, in which case a split would be warranted in future)

Hesperian 03:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I just noticed that there is a naming convention at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (places)#Australia. Is this enough of a 'go ahead' to start changing these articles?SauliH 04:53, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

More than enough. Hesperian 05:09, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

This would be within the ambit of Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian places.--cj | talk 08:41, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Yep, agree with CJ -- the whole purpose of enlarging this project to be "Australian places" was to cover standardisation of governance divisions and geographic features as well as towns, suburbs and cities.

As for the South Aussie LGAs I put a fair bit of effort into making the {{LGASA}} template correct, complete and up to date so it's very clear what the article names are or should be. I imagine the same approach could be taken for the LGAs in other states. — Donama 11:31, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'd Love To Join

I'm Australian born and raised and have always lived in Australia for every second of my life, I have visited every capital city of Australia and many country towns. I believe that Wikipedia doesn't have enough information on Australia and since I found out about this project I've been very interested. I am no admin or anything special like that, and I haven't been a wikipedian for that long but I really would love to join. If you wish to find out more about me visit my user page on User: John Harrison Highns.

Kind Regards John Harrison Highns 01:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Resource - Foundation Documents

This site was mentioned on 6PR in Perth tonight it has copies of original documentation for the foundation of Australia including Cook originals orders http://www.foundingdocs.gov.au/default.asp. should be useful information there for a number articles. Gnangarra 11:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requesting help on Cave Clan

Hello Australians!

I've been doing quite a bit of work on the Cave Clan article, mostly with the controversy surrounding the group and the resulting lack of neutrality. Before the NPOV and clean-up tags come down, it would be great if a few other Wikipedians could take a look. Thanks! -- hibou 18:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Libraries Australia

Greetings colleagues, I work at the National Library and had a look at our entry - it's a bit sparse and uninformative, especially concerning the largest library network in the world (Libraries Australia) which has 40 million holdings, and over a thousand contributing libraries. I'm posting this as a heads-up. I work for Libraries Australia and will be drafting an entry for us. I haven't contributed to Wikipedia before, so will be looking up the procedures for that as well. On the plus side, it's nice to see PictureAustralia has some mention :) --Curufea 05:53, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 16:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright question

Hello! Can anyone enlighten me regarding the general copyright situation regarding text and images from the State Library of Victoria? Thanks. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:19, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

this should cover the question about images http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Licensing#Australia on Commons, all govt works before 1956 are pd, for non government works it best to read the various topics including external links to relevant legislation. Gnangarra 13:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. Easy enough, thank you! --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:44, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Until Australian copyright law was revised under the US-Australia free trade agreement legislation at the end of 2004, the limits were 50 years for images and life+50 for text. The new legislation wasn't retroactive, so material in the public domain by the end of 2004 remained so. Therefore All Australian images published before the end of 1954 are in the public domain and All Australian text by an author who died before the end of 1954 is in the public domain. Hesperian 03:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bodyline

Bodyline is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy (Talk) 01:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australian literature articles

From the Wikipedia Signpost: An article by Jenny Sinclair (who has edited as User:Jenny Sinclair) in The Australian uses the lack of articles on notable Australian writers to explain how Wikipedia works, the nature of Wikipedia's "patchy, arbitrary" coverage, and the impact Wikipedia is having on the internet generation. After discussing the reasons Wikipedia has become a must use resource, Sinclair urges Australians to improve the Wikipedia articles on literature and signs off the article intending to "create that listing for Jessica Anderson."

I'm an American, and I'd really rather not let this thing be dominated by us and the English. I'd really like to read more about Australia, and I applaud this WikiProject's efforts to better represent the nation. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 15:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Please see Talk:Australian Aboriginal mythology#Requested move if you would like to contribute to a proposed move request. —Mets501 (talk) 01:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Separate pages for colonies?

Hi all. I've been pretty busy over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Former countries and I would be interested in the development of separate pages of the colonies of Australia prior to Federation. For example, the page for New South Wales is suitable only for the modern state, not for colony that preceded it. Sure, there is a History of New South Wales page, but a separate page for the colony would give the necessary room to describe the colony in more detail. If anyone is interested in creating such a page, I have prepared an infobox here, in keeping with the format that is used at WPFC. - 52 Pickup 15:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Are you proposing that the colonies were of equal status to a country? I am not sure that is accurate. You would need to be cautious on your wording if you undertake this. A history of the formation etc would most certainly be welcome however.SauliH 15:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm not proposing that at all. The project covers not only countries, but also colonies (eg. Malayan Union), puppet states (Confederation of the Rhine), protectorates (British Mandate of Palestine), etc. See Template:Infobox Former Country/Categories for a list of the categories that we are currently working through. Via the date-navigation section at the top of the infobox that we have designed, it is possible to jump to previous or successive entities. Basically, the project covers any entity that no longer exists. The colony of New South Wales ceased to exist with Federation, therefore a separate entry describing it can't hurt. - 52 Pickup 16:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Some work has been started on the South Australian colony see History of Adelaide, History of South Australia, and European settlement of South Australia, also see the history pages History of Australia, which links to the history of each capital. I am not sure how a new infobox will fly on these articles, as they have their own already. The NSW colony would be written up in History of Sydney?SauliH 16:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I wasn't sure how such a page would fit within the framework of what has already been done - this is why I thought I'd ask here before creating a new page. No worries. The infobox that I made will stay here should anybody find a use for it later on.

By the way, I just had a look at History of Sydney. Something appears to have gone very wrong over there. - 52 Pickup 16:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe we need to start a child Wikiproject: Australian History to get on top of the various history gaps. What do you all think?SauliH 16:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I would be interested in and happy to support such a project.--Golden Wattle ^talk 20:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. History needs plenty of work, and it would be very useful to be able to organise and prioritise what needs to be done. The title would be Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian history by the way. --bainer (talk) 00:55, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok I need help. I started the Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian history page today, and attempted to add the WP to Template:WP Australia. I am not sure whether I did it correctly, can someone please check. Also, how does automatic add to a history of australia category work. Can anyone get it up and going? I thought I would put down a foundation, and if people feel that we need to discuss something first then that is fine. I stole text from Wikipedia:WikiProject History of Greece , as it seemed the wording was ok. Feel free to edit the WP page as much as you like ie treat it like a stub.SauliH 23:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I fixed your change to {{WP Australia}}. It will add articles (well, their talk pages) to Category:WikiProject Australian history articles for project reference.--cj | talk 05:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:FA suggestion

Would any participants here like to help me make Holden Commodore or Ford Falcon into featured articles?? I think at least one should be a featured article; any advice on making the articles into one would be good. --SunStar Net 00:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sydney Riot of 1879

Sydney Riot of 1879 is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy (Talk) 22:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eureka Stockade

Eureka Stockade is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy (Talk) 21:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jonestown

Would someone mind creating an article about the controversial[1],[2],[3] book Jonestown: The Power and the Myth of Alan Jones, about Alan Jones, written by Chris Masters? Thanks, Chris Griswold (☎☓) 07:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brabham

I've got the article on the Brabham Formula One team up at Featured Article Candidates at present. It's been marked as a WikiProject Australia article for a while - now would probably be a good time to check whether you're still happy with that. I think when it was labelled as such, the lead started off by saying it was an Australian team. It had said that since before I started editing it - unfortunately after further research it turns out that it was not. The team was always based in the UK and raced under a UK license. Having said that, it was established by two Aussies, used Australian built engines to win two world championships and was largely staffed by Aussies and Kiwis for its first decade. Your call, I'm quite happy for it to remain part of WP:Aus if you feel it still meets the criteria. Cheers. 4u1e 21:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geo protocol

How should articles on indigenous aboriginal communities be entered - as per towns or is there different protocol? Fancyfootwork 07:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Towns and bounded localities are treated the same way. Assuming that it is a gazetted locality (i.e. it is listed in the Gazetteer of Australia [4]), then the article should be as per towns. Hesperian 10:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP State Projects

For anyone who has not noticed - there are now three state projects up and running. Please support these projects as they all need participants and help to buld and maintain.

Wikipedia:WikiProject Tasmania

Wikipedia:WikiProject Victoria

Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia

SatuSuro 02:43, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Biography project

I need to improve Graham Staines and it is tagged as (Australian Crime) while it actually is a biography.--Poulton 12:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Australia-org-stub

Hi guys,

The template {{Australia-org-stub}} has recently been created for the Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub Sorting. It would be nice if you could add it to any stubs about organizations based in Australia you happen to come accross.

Thanx,

--Carabinieri 19:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Joining the project

Hey, do I need to apply here? Or just add my name to the list? AtomicZero 11:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Just add your name to the list. Welcome aboard... -- Longhair\^talk 11:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks AtomicZero 12:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pat O'Shane Article

I've just added the Pat O'Shane article to wikiproject AU in the hope of attracting more eyeballs to it. It has some NPOV problems and would benefit from more diverse input. John Dalton 23:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shire Councils

As a closing admin of a RM, I stumbled upon what I think is a widespread misapplication of whatever naming convention is in effect: Queensland (and possibly other) shire articles are named Foo Shire Council where the articles are clearly about the Shires themselves rather than their administrative council. Please see Talk:Pine Rivers Shire Council#Requested move and decide what to do. Duja► 09:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for posting this here Duja; I was the nominator of the Pine Rivers Shire RM but it didn't seem to get much attention.

As I said in the RM, I think confusion has been caused by the fact that some LGAs in other states actually are named "Foo Council". All LGAs in Queensland, as far as I'm aware, are Cities, Towns or Shires and the articles should be named accordingly without the superflous "Council" tacked on the end. Note that articles like Brisbane City Council and Gold Coast City Council are okay, as those articles are about the actual governing Councils rather than the area. FiggyBee 14:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The few shires in the NT should not have "Council" in their name either. The one I used to live in is correctly named Shire of Litchfield although "Litchfield Shire" is in common use. --Bduke 22:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The "Council" suffix is incorrect for Queensland LGAs. The relevant legislation stipulates that all LGAs (save Brisbane, which is handled specifically) are to named either as "City/Shire of X" or "X City/Shire", not council. Any broad discussion on this matter should take place at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian places.--cj | talk 01:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)--cj | talk 01:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photos needed for Stubby cooler and Australiana

Hi, I've just put photo requests on Stubby cooler and Australiana, and figure that maybe somebody on this WikiProject may have a suitable image. Thanks,

Parasite 00:36, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Standards for A-class articles

A-class assessments at WikiProject Australia has no agreed standard. What do others think of the system used by WikiProject Military history, where A-class is "assigned after a formal review by the project as a whole, rather than at the discretion of individual reviewers". See Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment#Requests for A-Class status for a look at how they're doing A-class assessments -- Longhair\^talk 07:48, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. I've gone off doing assessments at the moment though - I got too much negative feedback to bother. --Scott Davis ^Talk 13:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't much like the idea myself. Who will bother jumping through hoops to get an article labelled as A-Class, then they can take it straight to FA-Class with five minutes more work? Not me; I'll just go straight from B- to FA-.

I recently promoted two of my own articles, Banksia epica and B. telmatiaea, to A-Class. Bad form assessing your own work? Probably. But I daresay no-one judges my work more harshly than I do. So please bear in mind that this system will not only hamper idiots with no idea how bad their work is; it will also hamper idiots like me who will only use a system if it is simple and informal.

Hesperian 23:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you're right Hesperian - why would anybody bother aiming for A-class when they can go through the more formal FA and GA processes? I don't have any problem with people self-assessing their own articles when they're an expert on the subject and the assessment remains undisputed. I know very little about Banksia's for example and wouldn't dare argue with your assessment on a Banksia-related topic ;) -- Longhair\^talk 23:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

You do know that Hesperian's just copying the text of his Banksia FA to every new article and only replacing the name and picture? Nobody's noticed so far ;) --Steve _(Slf67) ^talk 23:36, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha.

I'm not sure of the wider context for this discussion, but I assume there is one. Would a formal-ish review system address whatever it is you're trying to address? Hesperian 23:43, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Anything reviewed and reduced from FA Class, unless it's completely horrible, should be an automatic A-Class. Anything that just fails FAC for a few minor reasons should probably be A-Class as well. Someone recently added an article I've been working on, Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra railway line, Sydney to A-Class. Even though it's currently up for FA-Class, if it fails I would hope it stays that way... although the question I would like to know is whether A Class is better than GA or worse? At the moment it seems a redundant class in the middle of GA and FA... JROBBO 12:12, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dannii Minogue article

Hello. I recently nominated the Dannii Minogue article for FA status. I was wondering if anyone could take the time to look it over to double check spelling, prose, etc. Thank you so much. -- Underneath-it-All 03:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shiraz grape article name

There is a discussion about moving the name of this article to a name that is more consistent with other grape name articles. Since there is a regional preference between Shiraz and Syrah, any additional input would be appreciated. Please voice your thoughts on the Talk:Shiraz grape page Agne 22:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protected edit request at Template talk:Collab-australian

Wasn't sure by what means the wikiproject determines its collaborations, but figure this should be brought to somebody's attention, in here. Luna Santin 07:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pages might need work

Professor and Reader (academic rank) might need an Australian eye. I'm not sure if they describe the situation in Oz very well. For example, Professor used to suggest that Australians universities use Reader not Associate Professor. Here in NZ most use AP not Reader and I think they do in Oz as well so I update the page accordingly but perhaps I'm wrong. 203.109.240.93 00:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

If nothing else pop a {{globalize}} tag at the top and note why on the Talk Page. This can stimulate some discussion --Steve _(Slf67) ^talk 01:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added material and corrected material to these articles and academic rank. These articles are very confused because academic ranks are different in different countries even if they have the same same. For example, Associate Professor in Australia is not equivalent to Associate Professor in the US but to a normal Professor (not a named or distinguished chair, which is equivalent to Professor in Australia). Similarly Lecturer and, particularly Senior Lecturer are not equivalent to the US Assistant Professor because they are permanent (what passes for tenure these days) while the US position is defined by it being a non-tenure position. The term Reader in Australia is dieing out, with only a few old lags hanging on to it. --Bduke 21:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Australian Science

The AfD on List of Australians reinforced an earlier impression I had that we had poor coverage of Australian Scientists and Science. The number of redlinks in the "Science and Technology" section of that list was much greater than for the other sections. I created David Rivett, second Professor of Chemistry at Melbourne University and then Head of CSIRO for many years. We should have had that article long ago. It needs a lot more work, particularly on his work at CSIRO. We have poor coverage of Fellows of the Australian Academy of Science, even the Foundation Fellows such as Rivett. Would anyone help me to set up a sub-project of this project to improve coverage of Australian science and scientists? --Bduke 21:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

• I've been working on Australia science articles for some time; I have a list of AAAS members that I hope to move into the article space soon which will help highlight some of the gaps. Coverage of scientists is universally bad on wikipedia, just flick though most of the science Nobel laureates. --Peta 23:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
• Excellent. I agree about scientists in general. I have been working through the members listed at International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science. I have got all of them with Australian connections, I think. Still about 50% of them to do.The Chemistry Nobels is pretty good, if I recall correctly. --Bduke 00:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John Funder

There is a revert war going on at John Funder. --Eastmain 23:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Henry Croft

I recently noticed that someone had tagged Henry Croft under your project. I don't think that Croft really would be appropriate for it. Yes, he was born in Australia, but he moved to England at the age of 1. He would later move back after finishing school, but would again leave soon for the United States. He was not really Australian except for the fact that he was born there. He was more Canadian, and even served in a provincial legislature for British Columbia. So, I don't really see Croft falling under the scope of Australia. Kaiser matias 23:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Croft is listed under the category Australian businesspeople. I did a mass tagging of that category with the {{WP Australia}} template earlier and this article was swept up in the run. Does that category suit? Feel free to remove both if you don't think they're suitable. -- Longhair\^talk 00:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but Australians take ownership of anyone who so much as sets foot in this country. So no, you can't have him back. Look at Russell Crowe and Mel Gibson. ;) --Steve _(Slf67) ^talk 07:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm not really saying he wasn't Australian, he was just not as Australian as he could have been. But he still was regardless. Kaiser matias 17:44, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] All Nations Park

Just to let everyone know, I've merged All Nations Park into Northcote, Victoria and redirected the page to Northcote, Victoria as there had been a suggested merge tag on since december with no objections. If anyone disagrees with me feel free to revert back RyanPostlethwaite^{See the mess I've created or let's have banter} 15:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for information

There is an interesting discussion going on at WikiProject Cities (discussion here) about the best way to organize the relationship between parent and descendent projects. WikiProject Australia has been pointed out to us as an example of the use of "sub-projects" within a parent project, rather than "descendant projects" within a parent project.

I am not familiar with the details of how sub-projects work on a day-to-day basis. Would someone contact me here or on my talk page, to help us out. Spamreporter1 18:31, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

There's been talk of late between a few editors about changing the way we do things at WP:AUS, mostly do with the subprojects and assessments, and reducing the amount of templates needed on talk pages. It's time we pushed ahead with it actually. For those interested, I've created a subpage at Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/Future so that we can plan ahead. -- Longhair\^talk 19:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photo request

Greetings WikiProject Australia from Wikipedia:WikiProject Reference Desk Article Collaboration. We have just created Cork hat and what we would really, really like is a free image of a comedy cork hat. Some one must have one... Whadyasay? Rockpocket 09:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] West Island, Cocos (Keeling) Islands

As part of the article assessment process at WikiProject Cities I came across this stub article West Island, Cocos (Keeling) Islands. This was the first territorial capital I have ever seen in such a poor state. I live in Canada and do not have physical access to this area. If any members of this wikiproject could put some effort into improving it, that would be greatly appreciated. Alan.ca 20:16, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Climate Change and global warming - Causes, Solutions, Effects of Global Warming on Australia,

I started a personal project to initiate and improve coverage of the issue of Climate Change and Global warming in relation to Australia. I have received some criticism for this and am therefore now trying to improve my approach and have the importance of the overall topic recognised in relation to Australia. There are numerous articles relating to Climate change, Global warming Effects of global warming but they are quite US focussed. There is virtually nothing on Australia, which is surprising as the Stern report suggests that Australia is likely to be hit quite hard and the issue has been in the news virtually every day since a month before An Inconvenient Truth commenced playing in cinemas. IPCC Fourth Assessment Report has recently been released and there is overwhelming scientific agreement as to climate change causing global warming as the result of human activity and that unless greenhouse gas emissions, notably CO2, are dramatically reduced quite quickly, there will be further temperature and sea level rises, and that these will impact strongly on Australia. We have even seen John Howard move from skeptic to considering a carbon cap and trading scheme. Clearly something is happening here and WP hardly recognises it at present in the Australian context.

I seek suggestions as to the structure of a project to ensure that climate change and global warming are covered from an Australian perspective in WP, and that articles on other topics recognise and discuss the issue these issues where relevant.

My approach to date has been to start articles on Coal Mining in Australia, Wind power in Australia and Solar power in Australia, and to follow from general articles on relevant issues to an article about that issue in Australia eg from Effects of global warming to Effects of global warming on Australia now redirected (quite wrongly in my view) to Climate of Australia. I have also amended articles including on Clean coal technology where they ignored issues and appeared to represent a pro-industry POV.

I also stumbled into a debate about the relationships of environment, ecology and conservation which are related and sometimes overlapping but essentially different topics.

I look forward to your thoughts. dinghy 14:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lists of people

After an article called "List of Australians" was deleted, a conversation has sprung up in various places about appropriateness of various lists. If that interests you, please join the discussion I have started at talk:Lists of Australians. Many of those lists need deletion or major work. --Scott Davis ^Talk 06:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Railpage Australia

Is anyone watching the edit war there? Satu[[User talk:SatuSuro|Suro]] 12:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Links to Illustrative Virtual Tours & Photography Q's

G'day one and all,

I have a blog where I showcase a place with high resolution virtual tours. The Tours are presented 1 per day over a week or 2 per place. Over the coming months I'll be covering (or have covered):

Broken Hill, Hobart City, Silverton, Blue Mountains, Gold Coast, Melbourne City, Canberra City, Adelaide City, Robe, Beach Port, Geelong, Launceston, Strahan, Bicheno, Stanley, Queenstown, Burnie, Cradle Mountain, Port Arthur, Ross, Deloraine, Noosa, Sunshine Coast, Brisbane, Fraser Island, Sydney and a lot more.

Link to Blog.[5]

The virtual tours are geo referenced and include a map in each post to show where the tour was taken. At the same time the posts for an area, eg Broken Hill, can be viewed all together inside google maps. Some of the FullScreen tours will also include ambient audio recorded at the time of the shoot. See the example:

Link to blog inside google maps.[6]

Now onto my questions.

1) Considering the content is original, available nowhere else & provides a great visual reference for a place, would it be appropriate to have external links to these google map pages (link above) or the blog itself from the relevant wikipedia pages? (ie Broken Hill)

2) I can also provide high quality panoramic still images from this work that could be used in wikipedia. I've spent a couple of hours reading here, but I'd like to know, do I have to give up all commercial rights in order to allow wikipedia the use of my images? On the flip side, do I have to allow anyone the right to use my images commercially in order for wikipedia to use my images?

Here's my take on the issue, as a professional photographer. I'm more than happy for people to use my images for personal purposes. To have them on websites of a personal nature, download them for enjoyment, research etc, but I'm not happy for my images to be used commercially, or even sold by other people, which is how I read the license info. (I may be getting confused with Wikitravel?) If someone could set me straight on this, I'd much appreciate it.

Thanks for your time,

Aaronspence 01:31, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the information but Blogs arent acceptable as External Links or as references. All images are required to be realeased in accordance with {{GFDL}} in general restricted use images cant be uploaded onto wikipedia. Additionally if you were to add a link to all these articles it would be considered spaming/advertising. Gnangarra 01:47, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for that Gnangarra, I didn't intend to put any links in without express permission from the group :) I had read about blogs not generally being acceptable, unless the blogger was someone special, but as my blog is very special I thought it might be OK ;) Regarding the photography issue, how can Wikipedia get professional work in if there is no protection for the pro photographer? I imagine thousands of pro's would be happy for their work to appear on Wikipedia, if it was protected from low lifes ripping it off and selling it legally. Low lifes will do that anyway, but at least with copyright or CC-no commercial use etc the photog has some recourse.

Much appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Aaronspence 02:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Aaronspence - Further to the above and particularly your question ...how can Wikipedia get professional work in if there is no protection for the photographer? ... - can I be candid and suggest you have a general look at Commons:Featured_pictures and even just flip through the files at Commons. You will see there are plenty of us quietly taking professional quality photographs and happily uploading them using {{GFDL}} licence for the good of the Wiki-World. Go on take a punt and upload some of yours - we'd love to see them in amongst our own efforts --VS ^talk 04:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Steve firstly I must apologise for implying that 'non-professionals' (ie people who don't make a living from photography) can't take professional quality photos every bit as good as the 'Pros', 'cause I don't for a moment believe that to be the case. The outstanding work in featured pictures (which I have looked through) is more than testament to this fact :) Thanks for the encouragement I'll give it some good consideration. I love what wikipedia is doing, and I love Australia, so I'd like people to be able to see stuff that's written about :) Quick question, have you guys had much trouble with people doing inappropriate (but not illegal under CC) things with your work?

Thanks, Aaronspence 19:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Aaron - no apology required - So that we keep this page clear of general chat I have placed a full and lengthy response to your question on your talk page at Aaronspence|talk. --VS ^talk 22:12, 26 February 2007 (UTC)