Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indonesia/Archive 1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Template 2 Suggestion 3 Non Indonesia-related articles 4 Map Problems 5 Fauna of New Guinea 6 Featured Articles 6.1 Candidates 7 Joining WP 8 Collaboration 9 Indonesia navigation 10 Books 11 Selected article nominations 12 Spelling 13 Criteria for inclusion/exclusion 14 Featured Portal!! Yay! 15 Busy 16 Tagging talk pages and assessing articles 17 Category:Indonesian words 18 Poverty in Indonesia 19 Heroes' Day 20 Project directory 21 I am an amateur 22 My Wikibreak 23 E Java template 24 Portal:Current events/Southeast Asia 25 Sacred cow 26 Two missing articles for places with populations > 100,000 27 Wikipedia Day Awards 28 Looking for information on Prabowo and KOPASSUS 29 Re-activating the project 30 A new main page 31 Newcomer 32 Naming conventions 33 Useful resources subpage (?) 34 For the multicultural amongst us 35 Tourist Guide Books 36 New Infobox Island 37 Location image 38 Indonesian is disambiguation now 39 Using Indonesian terms 40 Es Chendol 41 Google books 42 Wikipedia:WikiProject Endangered languages 43 Recognized contents section 44 Look who's now showing at today's Picture of the Day? 45 Indonesia travel article in Washington Post 46 Rationlisation of island-related categories 47 The Sastrowardoyo Family 48 Dictionaries 49 How many island in Indonesia 50 Wikipedia is failing 51 Wikipedia overlay for Google Earth 52 Category tagging 53 Terrorism 54 Pagaruyung Palace destroyed by fire (again) 55 Anyone speak German? 56 barnstar deleted 57 SEA Project 58 Help !! 59 Batik spammer 60 Bangka-Belitung logo 61 Syahrir Wiki Page 62 Coats of Arms 63 DAB links in Infobox

[edit] Template

Although it appears as if policy is kindof mixed on this issue, I was wondering If I could convince this project to refrain from putting a template on the top of the page of the current collaboration. The template (although temporay) ruins the look and profesionalism of the article and as redundent to the template already present on the talk page. Thanks for your condideration --T-rex 22:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The discussion is here for all to see and commet on, but in light of no new comments from last weeks discussion on talk pages, i am behind keeping it for the following reasons:

• As you point out the template is temporary - so issue of "looks" is not really important (plus it is bright but out of the way). Looks are highly subjective, but even if it was deemed detrimentle, "ruining" the article I think most will agree is an exageration.
• Putting it on the discussion page removes it from sight from a large (most?) of its potential audience - such a loss in numbers does not justify any possible perceived negative opinions on "looks"
• The policy (and discussions you linked previously) were far from clear and unaninmous.
• Last week, I check the list of collabs (can't find the link now). They overwhelmingly had the template on the main page. (something like 80%)
• So far, you are the only one to have expressed opposition to it. :)

The template is currently on Java. --Merbabu 01:53, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually I would dispute a few of those points, as the potential audiance is not readers, but the wikiproject members, who would find out rather through the project page. From the collabs I looked at it appeared less then half (40%) used the template, and by "ruin" I only refer to the formating as the content is (obviouslly) unchanged.--T-rex 04:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The potential as opposed to likely audience is, as with all of wikipedia, ALL readers before editors. Hence the 'edit this page' and lack of sign-in required. How many of us were editors before we were readers? I know of no policy that suggest editors have any special priorities over readers (nor any that make such a distinction, at least one that is relative).

I don't know what 60% of collabs you looked at but all the geographic collabs use the template on first page, except 1 which has no template anywhere. Ditto US history, and all Religion related: From 12 pages, only 1 current collab had a template on talk page and not on article page. I didn't check the other categories listed on the collab page. maybe you can check the science collabs. --Merbabu 04:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm planning on bringing this up with some of the other mini-collaborations within the next week as well, lets see where it goes. I do have an opinion on this, but no hard feelings either way --T-rex 04:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The main collab page [1] (at the bottom) supports the way it is done here, although it doesn't say it musn't be done this way.

With respect, on what other articles have you opposed collab banners? It's twice in a few weeks you've opposed this one, the first occasion being at your opposition to the "Indonesian case" for a direct link to Java. Just curious. Once again, you are the only one i know of to dispute it - so far.--Merbabu 04:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

None others yet, next week I will have more time to do so. Given some resistance to just taking down the template I felt it best to here and to give this a more formal discussion. Also I consider the java page move thing to be a seperate, unrelated discussion --T-rex 06:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm - OK, I've made the point (whether valid or not), but will consider it seperate from now on. :-) --Merbabu 06:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I also think it looks terrible. it seems extremely nationalistic for wikipedia, with should ultimately be an international collaboration.--naught101 05:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments but how is it not international? Many of the frequent editors (even most?) are not Indonesian, myself included. High international collaboration! SHould I list them and their nationalities/location? It clearly states on the collab page that it is open to all. There are a number of other geographically (rather than nationalistic) collabs including USA, India and Canada. [2] --Merbabu 07:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

In the assesment scale at 2.3 - I am about to add a number of other set of possible issues/subjects. Please feel free to edit if you have difference with this, thanks SatuSuro 04:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Non Indonesia-related articles

To the assessment department, why the following list of articles are included in the project? I can't find any relation with Indonesia.

• Louis Beel
• Valerie Mahaffey
• Joan Maetsuycker
• Hubertus Johannes van Mook
• Pieter Both
• Bali Starling - This rare and Bali's only endemic bird was discovered in 1910 (this italic part is not my talk, please do not add somebody's talk — Indon (reply) — 12:23, 28 August 2006 (UTC))

Thank you. — Indon (reply) — 09:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Look carefully in Indonesian History - sections about Dutch East Indies, they were characters involved.

Also van Mook also was the last Governor General as well as a writer about local history in the Yogyakarta area.

Bali Starling is like most of the natural history/environmental issues - animals that are found within the bounds of the country.

Hope that explains it, if you need further explanation, please ask.SatuSuro 10:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

First, sorry to add (':') character before the above talk, to clarify which were said by who.

In the project aim, it is said:

The Indonesia WikiProject is a group dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to Indonesia.

Yes, history is important, but do you want to include all Dutch politicians before 1945? Because all of them are related to — what you said — Indonesia. How about all Portuguese people who lived when they maintained some part of Indonesia hundreds years ago? Should we include also Napoleon Bonaparte in the project, as he ruled Dutch East Indies? :-) I think we should limit ourself to the articles that are really have strong relationship with Indonesia. Otherwise this project will be to broad.

And to the Bali Starling article. It's a name of a bird, which is coincidently have Bali in it. Look at this article [3]. Would you want to include all those animals in the project? — Indon (reply) — 10:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to comment. I reckon it is true that Dutch East Indies is related to Indonesia. However, the Dutch East Indies related articles are not related strong enough with Indonesia. You know, like its just partially related, probably less than that. If there is a Dutch East Indies project, probably it could be included there. Cheers -- Imoeng 11:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Our project generally considers any article related to Indonesia to be a valid topic.

I suggest you need to either (1) put up a vote as to whether other participants wish to limit the scope of articles - by defining this more carefully by omitting all items relative to Indonesia's history before 1945, otherwise you then have a whole process of having to decide what a really strong connection is. (2) Be Brave and put your citeria more clearly as Indonesia since 1945, and you'll have to ditch archaeology and history prior to 1945.You might need to talk to the people who have worked on the Indonesian History project about that. SatuSuro 12:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Please don't make any extreme points. I've said that history is important and everybody will agree that Indonesian history, its archeological founds, etc., which are general Indonesian historical articles are important. But please, again please, think again if those individuals listed above have strong importance to Indonesia. — Indon (reply) — 12:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

OK somebody somehow at some point is going to have to arrive at what 'strong importance' means. SatuSuro 12:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the following might be of help, compared to the english version: -

H.J. van Mook Dari Wikipedia Indonesia, ensiklopedia bebas berbahasa Indonesia. Langsung ke: panduan arah, cari

Hubertus Johannes van Mook (Semarang, 30 Mei 1894 - L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, Perancis, 10 Mei 1965) adalah Gubernur-Jendral Hindia-Belanda yang terakhir dan menjabat setelah Jepang menguasai Hindia-Belanda. Van Mook adalah Gubernur-Jendral yang ke 68 dan menjabat dari tanggal 14 September 1944 sampai 1 November 1948 Meskipun Van Mook berpangkat sebagai Gubernur-Jendral, ia secara de facto setelah masa pendudukan Jepang bukan penguasa Hindia-Belanda lagi. Berbeda dengan pendahulunya, Tjarda van Starkenborgh Stachouwer, semasa Perang Dunia II Van Mook berada di Australia. [sunting] Lihat pula

• Daftar Penguasa Hindia-Belanda

Didahului oleh: Tjarda van S. Stachouwer Gubernur-Jendral Hindia-Belanda 1942-1948 Digantikan oleh: tidak ada Diperoleh dari http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.J._van_Mook

Kategori: Kelahiran 1894 | Kematian 1965 | Gubernur-Jendral Hindia-Belanda

SatuSuro 12:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

So, do you mean all articles from Indonesian wikipedia should be listed in this projects????

Satu Suro, please use the indentation correctly to avoid confusion, okay? — Indon (reply) — 12:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Apologies, I thought I had the indentation. No I am offering an article from Indonesia wiki which you were suggesting was a Non Indonesia article. And no I am not suggesting that all article from Indonesian wikipedia should necessarily be listed in the project. It's just that the project has an aim, I have put up articles into the WP Indonesia assessment list, and you have objected to that. So either, remove the articles from the assessment you dont like - using the process which Imoeng has put up in the structure of the project and portal, or - maybe you should suggest how the project should clarify the criteria for inclusion or exclusion of items that are related to Indonesia, but which have some guidelines from somewhere.SatuSuro 12:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe a a way to approach it (a compromise between guess-n-giggle and mathematical modelling) would be to group the topic for yourself (ie, in your head). Ie bali starling would be Nature, Beel would be history, and Rinjani would be geography or mountains and ask how they compare to other figures you know of in that group. Ie, starling would have to be below orang hutan but arguably not low because of its endangered status and significance to Bali, Beel would have to be below Sukarno (highest?) and SBY (high) and lower than Nasution (mid). Ie, consider each article in it the broader context of its type group. Remember, we should be using importance to prioritise works - in conjucntion with their quality. Also, look at the various lists of articles that have been created - that is also a good guide. It would be nice to get a fairly even distribution. --Merbabu 15:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map Problems

Many current "tourist" maps (specially US based derivative web-based "info" maps) of Indonesia have mistakes that are so gross as to dissallow their use. For a good example, some maps linked to the Gunung Merapi article are so wrong as to seriously mislead an innocent user of wikipedia. Hati hati dan kwatir with such items as "reference". SatuSuro 04:24, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fauna of New Guinea

I saw the WikiProject on the community portal, and thought I would make you aware of this article. I created a bit over a week ago, and am currently working on getting it to FA. IF anyone would like to help, please do. Thanks --liquidGhoul 14:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi LiquidGhoul, I'm afraid I'm no biologist, so can't help you with this article from that point of view, but if you need anything translating from Indonesian, let me know. Cheers, --Sepa 12:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured Articles

I agree with Imoeng that it's sad there are no featured articles about Indonesian. Perhaps we should choose just one and work on it? It's hard when just one person is working on something... I'd love to get Kartini up to FA status, but just don't have the time to drum up the support that's required. There are other groups that might be interested in helping out too... the Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias group might be willing to help out, and it also might be worth approaching the Dutch group, too. Cheers, --Sepa 12:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I reckon, many Dutchs on the notice board page. Kartini is a good choice, (as well as many possible articles :P). So what do you think if we wait a little bit longer until people show up? Btw, do you have any relation with some people in that project? Cheers -- Imoeng 12:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

August 17, 1945, the declaration of independence. They didn't use a flagpole made from gold, instead, made from bamboo. They didn't make the flag from silk, instead, it was from two clothes. For now, I think we don't need a collaboration info page yet, so, lets talk about it here for tonight! HEhehehheh -- Imoeng 12:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Before we start drumming up support for Kartini, we need to do a bit more research... it was nominated for 'good article' status, and on the talk page you can see the comments that were made in that attempt. We need to fix those issues up before doing any more. I don't know anyone on the Dutch board, but CherryTreeBlossom from the Systemic Bias board took a look at it before and would probably do so again once we've made some significant changes. I think we also might need to accept the possibility that maybe there just isn't an article of FA quality in there, but that won't stop us trying to create one!

[edit] Candidates

• Kartini
  • I agree with that -- Imoeng

[edit] Joining WP

Hi, I'm a new user of Wikipedia. I saw WikiProject Indonesia and I'd like to help something that I knew about. The question is: where do I start? And also I've found some Indonesian articles that haven't been tagged with WP:INA. How can I tag it? — Indon 14:01, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Collaboration

The new collaboration page has been created. For now, it is a "collaboration of the week" with standard rules and stuff, which later we can decide for any changes. But now, lets start nominating articles (one article for each person!) and voting. Please take a look at the page. Cheers -- Imoeng 11:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indonesia navigation

I had a spare time so I created WP:NAVINDO or WP:INA/N. Its a "somewhat" complete navigation of all Indonesia-related stuff, beside articles. Take care -- Imoeng 07:21, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Books

There seem a very large number of indon arts with not one off-line ref, is there a problem with citing books or non-internet refs at all ? SatuSuro 13:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I guess it depends on what access to references you have. I only have access to online resources, as I'm no longer studying, AND I live in the UK where resources about Indonesia are limited anyway. --Sepa 11:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you can cite off-line sources. Take a look at this example Wikipedia:Template_messages/Sources_of_articles/Generic_citations, all url fields in the template are optional. — Indon (reply) — 22:06, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Selected article nominations

If I create a page where we can nominate articles and pictures for the Indonesian portal, will people (you) participate. If yes, I'll make it right away! Cheers -- Imoeng 09:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for late answer, yes I will participate. — Indon (reply) — 22:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling

Are we using American or British English? Cheers -- Imoeng 11:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC) (new signature colour/color!!!)

I think the official policy is that it doesn't matter, as long as it's consistent within an article? Personally I use British spelling as that's what I grew up with, but I don't mind using US spelling in the odd article that has already been started. I wouldn't want to swap completely as I don't know US spelling for a lot words and it would be awkward to change such a well developed habit! --Sepa 11:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, from now on I reckon I'll use British English spelling. However if there is an article with American English, I would just follow the current style. Cheers -- Imoeng 11:49, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

And I don't know which one is American and which one is British, cause I'm living not in both countries, hahaha. So, please remind or correct my contributions if they are not consistent in the corresponding articles. — Indon (reply) — 12:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criteria for inclusion/exclusion

Our goals

       * To provide guidelines and recommendations for articles that describe all aspects of Indonesia.
       * To improve Wikipedia's coverage of Indonesia by creating, expanding, and maintaining such articles.
       * To serve as the central point of discussion for issues related to Indonesia in Wikipedia.

Our scope

   The project generally considers any article related to Indonesia to be a valid topic. 

This needs to be reviewed in face of objections of inclusions of articles in Wiki Project Indonesia and Indonesia Portal from some editors. I suggest that a serious revision of the above goals and scope needs to be made, or otherwise clarified in some way.

• If time limits are to be placed on this, then Indonesia History Project participants should be consulted considering the effort that they have put in.
• If subject limits are to be placed as well, the Indonesia Portal will probably have to be reduced in scope.

Best of luck SatuSuro 12:19, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Again, you misunderstood me and put an extreme point. For others, the above topic, raised by SatuSuro, — I assumed — was related to the discussion in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indonesia/Assessment about non-Indonesian articles. Come on, SatuSuro! You don't have to raise about time limit here. Any Indonesian-related articles without time limit, as long as it is related to Indonesia can be included in this project. Now, I've listed several articles about individuals which are not valid in this project (see this page: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indonesia/Assessment again). They have a relation, but please are they related-Indonesian articles?? Just use your common sense. If a Dutch politicians who lived during the Dutch East Indies is listed in the project, should we include Napoleon Bonaparte??? — Indon (reply) — 12:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The misunderstandings seem endless.

(1) You listed Van Mook, I gave an example where he was a Dutch administrator of Dutch East Indies at a critical time, If you have a problem with that - is he in or out?

(2) You are most welcome to take whoever you like out, my common sense maybe different from yours on a number of matters, I am not asking you to keep any articles, I have put them up - and have no problem if you give a good reason to remove them.

(3) Napoleon Bonaparte is not in, but Stamford Raffles is definitely in because he created the position of the Pakualam in Yogyakarta, for a start.

Are we getting anywhere on this? SatuSuro 13:16, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured Portal!! Yay!

Congrats guys! The Indonesian portal is now a featured portal, woohoo! Again, I'd like to thank people who participate in the improvements of the portal. Cheers -- Imoeng 20:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations !!!. Now let us make tons of featured articles, guys. — Indon (reply) — 08:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Well done - you deserve a pat on the back - but keep up the hard work guys - there is still a lot of room for imporvement (says the old grumpy editor) SatuSuro 08:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Pat on the back, uhh, not so hard, okay? Hehehehe. Yeah lets rule Wikipedia! (says the kid who wants to rule the world) Imoeng 08:29, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Well done Imoeng! You've made such a difference to the Indo community here on Wikipedia in such a short time... I'm glad you're here.--Sepa 18:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Sepa :) Imoeng 23:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Busy

Hey all, how are you going? So, yeah, I've got four new projects now, d'oh! Therefore I probably won't be as active as usual. Well, if something-very-serious-that-you-need-to-contact-me happens, you can still drop a message on my talk page, or my email. Cheers, take care -- Imoeng 12:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tagging talk pages and assessing articles

Hi. If you still have work to do tagging talk pages and assessing articles, my AWB plugin might be of interest to you.

The plugin has two main modes of operation:

• Tagging talk pages, great for high-speed tagging
• Assessments mode, for reviewing articles (pictured)

As of the current version, WikiProjects with simple "generic" templates are supported by the plugin without the need for any special programatic support by me. I've had a look at your project's template and you seem to qualify.

For more information see:

• About the plugin
• About support for "generic" WikiProject templates
• User guide
• About AWB (AutoWikiBrowser)

Hope that helps. If you have any questions or find any bugs please let me know on the plugin's talk page. --Kingboyk 13:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Indonesian words

I started: Category:Indonesian words. If you see any more words, maybe add the cat. yours Tobias Conradi (Talk) 15:17, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Tobias, I noticed this yesterday. I am not sure of the benefit of this category. Although i don't want to suggest it be deleted without you having a chance to explain its intended use. Obviously you cannot put every Indonesian word there, so the few that do go there must have a reason. Why for example to people need to know that kota means city. On the other hand orang redirects to Orangutan which is certainly not its primary meaning in Indonesian. I also note that the words listed there are mostly (or all??) redirected to an English language equivalent. All I am saying is that the intentions of the category need to be more fully defined and communicated. Thanks --Merbabu 22:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poverty in Indonesia

I noticed that poverty in Indonesia redirects to Indonesia, which appears to have no significant discussion of poverty. Given that 52.4% of its 223 million citizens are living on less than $2 US a day, I would have expected it to have more significant coverage.

I would start an article, but I'm afraid I don't know enough about the subject. I will, however, gladly contribute where I can if someone would care to start it - just leave a note on my talk page. Of course, if I'm missing this please do point me in the right direction - I'm trying to link from the article on the documentary War Photographer. --INTRIGUEBLUE (talk|contribs) 14:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Agree that it is a very important topic that has not been adequately addressed. I'm sure there is a lot of information on the web from NGOs. It would make a good collaboration of the week for the Indonesia wikiproject. As well as creating a new article, the information needs to be well integrated with the Indonesia and Economy of Indonesia articles (MichaelJLowe 05:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC))

Perhaps it is a new section of the Economy article?? Maybe later, if there is enough info create an independant article. I'd rather see a complete section rather than a light article. just my 2cents --Merbabu 05:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heroes' Day

I added this line to November 10:

• 1945 - the first Indonesian resistance against the returning colonialists after World War II, celebrated as Heroes' Day (Hari Pahlawan).^{[citation needed]}

That's probably not quite right (it was the English returning, on behalf of the Dutch?)... I tried to check it but it's not mentioned in History of Indonesia. --Singkong2005 · talk 14:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I am an amateur

Where do you got all that information? I want to support and be an active member too but i dont know how to get all that information you have. WHere do you get it? User:Marhadiasa 10.55, 26 Oct 06 (UTC +7)

ha ha, well that is the trick - it can be hard. Sources have to be reliable, and the more often they appear, the better. Here's some good general info on citations - sorry if you already know all that. --Merbabu 04:04, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My Wikibreak

Hello all, how are you? So as I said on my talk page, I have decided to have a extremely gigantic marvellously ultimately long wikibreak. The reason is Wikipedia has affected my real life so much and I didn't realise it. Also, Satu Suro is right, I have sold my soul to heavy metal :P. But I will be back every two weeks to update stuff, such as newsletters and collaborations. If you have questions about the project, please email me. Good luck and take care -- Imoeng 07:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] E Java template

The {{E Java}} template is incorrectly linking to the disambiguation page for Kediri, rather than to the page for the city of Kediri. As a medium-experience editor, I have no clue how to fix this. Thanks!!! Kathy A. 23:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Done - invoice in the mail. ;-) (Go here: Template:E_Java) --Merbabu 00:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Current events/Southeast Asia

As many of you have noticed, the Portal:Current events/Southeast Asia page is getting extremely out of date. Before I spend any time bringing it up to date with the last months news from Indonesia and elsewhere, does anyone think this is worthwhile? I can do my best to keep it up to date with Indonesian news, but no way can I do all the other countries in SE Asia, and if not one else is doing this then we might as well call it Current_events/Indonesia. If this is turning into a bit of a dead end page I don't want to spend too long working on it. Thoughts? --Bwmodular 13:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

wow - a south east asian portal. thanks for introducing me to it. It seems to be largely a news source. I prefer the Indonesia portal. --Merbabu 13:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why news editors for that portal dissapear. I don't want to be news editor, either. Only news citer for WP:PID. — Indon (reply) — 13:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

OK. I'll volunteer to be Indonesian News Editor for that portal page for the moment - let's see if we get any contributions for other countries if I keep it up to date for a while. On a technical note, can anyone work out why the layout is currently screwed up for that page. Compare the layout of today's entry [4] with that from Mid september [5]. Why is the sidebar relegated to top of the 16th November entry. I've compared the code with today's and there doesn't seem to be anything significantly different. Oh, and Merbabu, it's not really a SE ASian portal, it's part of the current events portal, so yes, specifically to do with news items. We link to it from the bottom of the News section on the Indonesia portal, and it is 'meant' to be the source for everything in the Indonesia News section, which is why I'm interested in it.--Bwmodular 13:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Fixed the format issue - was a minor problem with the entry for 16th November. --Bwmodular 16:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Current events/Southeast Asia is now more or less up to date, in that all news articles from any of the S.E. Asian portals are there (have also brought the pages for October and November up to date). So, if you add a News Item to the Indonesia portal, please add an entry in the News Portal, as we used to do. I'll try and keep the SEAsian News portal up to date for the next month or two. If it looks like no-one else is using / editing that page during that time, then maybe it's time for a re-think - I like the idea of a News archive, but if the one we're using is defunct, then maybe we should set up a specific Indonesia news archive where all the old news items go. Lets see what happens over the next few weeks. Oh, yes, I know the News sidebar is out of date, and a few other things need fixing. Feel free to jump in before I fix them myself :) --Bwmodular 14:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

P.S. If you see some news for other S.E.Asian countries that should be added and don't want to do this yourself, just drop a note on my talk page and I'll sort it out myself. Also, I'll add a quick note to the Indonesia Portal talk page and the Indonesia Portal News talk page.--Bwmodular 15:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sacred cow

What is the balinese view on the cow? Is it as revered as in India? I heared the balinese eat beef.--D-Boy 08:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Balinese hinduism is far different than the India's. Balinese does not consider of sacred cow, as far as I know. That's why Balinese hinduism is called Agama Hindu Dharma. — Indon (reply) — 10:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two missing articles for places with populations > 100,000

The Wikipedia:Missing articles for towns and cities with 100,000 or more inhabitants project has identified two places in Indonesia with apprenty current populations of more than 100,000 that do not have articles in the English-language Wikipedia. In each case, an existing article in another Wikipedia edition has been found with what looks like the correct name.

They are:

• Bitung - is this id:Kota Bitung?
• Tebing Tinggi - see ms:Tebing Tinggi

Would anyone be interested in creating articles for these places? -- The Anome 01:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

interested? Of course, but no time. Other priorities. How about you get the ball rolling? ;-) Stubs are fine for starters at least. --Merbabu 01:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I did a stub for Tebing Tinggi. Someone else can do Bitung (MichaelJLowe 02:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:43, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Looking for information on Prabowo and KOPASSUS

I am involved in trying to improve the Prabowo article, which has enormous NPOV problems and many unsourced statements, and is also missing many significant biogrpahical details which should be there. The same kind of problems, though to a lesser degree, exist in the page on Kopassus, the unit which Prabowo commanded. I would be grateful to anyone who could point out good online sources for information on Prabowo and Kopassus, and for recent Indonesian political and military history in general. Thank you!Adam keller 14:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re-activating the project

Hi all. After the Great Creator of this project has left Wikipedia for good, tThis project seems to be abandoned. Only the Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia/Collaboration works, thanks to Merbabu. Improvements of Indonesia-related articles are still performed individually, but we can use this project to organize and speed up the improvement drive. Let's say it's the beginning of 2007, why don't we re-activate this project. I have several ideas to shape up the project page for easy access for (new) members and activating some useful topics: local A-class assessment, project-based peer-reviewed, guidelines of formatting and contents of similar articles (provinces, cities, islands, etc.) and standardize templates. Of course, we still continue our fortnight collaboration.

The WP:INA and its sub-pages are good, but it is somehow confusing to follow for new members especially. The layout was taken from WP:IND, but their project has a lot of members, so organizing into deeply sub-pages is feasible. How about if we make a one-stop page of WP:INA for important tasks (collaboration, peer-review and A-class nominations), so everybody can nominate/contribute directly? It is similar with more or less WP:MILHIST.

We may be small in numbers (< 30 members currently), but I think we can better organize our project. So, I need other comments. — Indon (reply) — 12:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Suggest

Hi, I've been doing random WPI tags (for the unititiated this means going to an article - finding no Wikiproject Indonesia tag on the talk page and putting it in) through a very large number of stubs or articles that are more or less stubs. They are almost all class=stub and importance=low, although a small percentage might be slightly higher in importance. Please note that I am not putting portal links on article pages at this point .

As a consequence I would like to suggest:-

• No bot or awb work on the WPI tag at this stage - it needs carefull reading of the stubs - however short - to avoid disambig and other issues.
• If you find an article that is Indonesia related - please - take the time and trouble to put at least the WPI tag on the talk page if does not have one - I am constantly finding articles with no tag at the strangest of places where we should expect them.
• Anyone who wishes to do this as an exercise (ok I know its very low on interest in the part of some editors - thats fine - we all have our different talents - its ok if there is limited interest I am not worried) if you could alert me to your interest - as there are a couple of issues if we can have few who are interested.
• Red links on lists - there a number of links full of red links - I would like someone to help to create stubs for these if possible.
• Assessment for stubs in most cases are straight forward - for larger articles - I am hoping that our guidelines are well tested on mid and high importance - and in fact are double checked where possible.
• Aspects of this sort of work is dull, boring, and not interesting to many other editors - I happen to find it very interesting - having read touism guide books and maps about Indonesia for over 20 years now - I am intrigued by the misinformation and outright incorrect rubbish that gets onto the internet - and into non-indonesian media about places in indonesia especially. Anyone who might wish to help out in thtis aspect of the project - I would appreciate any feedback on this part of the project.

SatuSuro 15:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I've also an idea about the assessment. I know SatuSuro has been working hard for tagging in Indonesia-related articles. We have know over 800 articles in the project. If you look into the statistics, none of them have been rated as A-class. How about if we activate this level? Any individual editors can freely rate an article they are working on between stub, start or B-class. An A-class is supposed to be an article that is ready to be nominated in WP:GAC or WP:FAC. It has to be rated by the project's community. So if an article to be graded A should be nominated first, much like FA, but reviews are only local to the project. So, an A-Class status is assigned after a formal review by the project as a whole, rather than at the discretion of individual reviewers. One excellent example is here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Requests_for_A-Class_status. — Indon (reply) — 17:10, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Indon the site structure needs to be simplified. For example, can we delete Wikipedia:Indonesia-related_topics_notice_board? It would be also be helpful to newcomers to provide a section which lists resources for getting started, and in particular Indonesia specific resources whether they be on wikipedia or elsewhere. Lastly, in order for the project to prosper we are desperately in need of additional editors. Can we put in some effort to market wikipedia and recruit contributors from among people with knowledge of Indonesia - universities (both inside and outside Indonesia), bloggers who write about Indonesia, expat clubs/societies (both inside and outside Indonesia), newspapers in Indonesia, etc? (MichaelJLowe 09:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC))

Yes, i agree. The project's structure is not simple enough - at least it looks very complicated, even if it probably isn't. Although, to make things simple actually takes more work than to make them complicated!!

I also agree we need more REFERENCED CONTRIBUTIONS. Not just copyedits, and not just uncited translations from wiki id.

Yes, how to get expert contributors? Can we even approach universities maybe? The most active members here seem to be in Indonesia, Netherlands, or Australia - the three countries with arguably the most Indonesia expertise in the world. Let's think of ways to encourage some real experts to contribute.

That's it for now. I will comment again later, no doubt.Merbabu 11:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

How about trying to get an article into The Jakarta Post, as per the recent one in Kompas (?). It could coincide with the our Indonesia article getting FA status. Maybe they could include a profile on our prolific expat editor at Leiden ;-) As for getting expects to contribute, I would suggest finding the two-dozen most important academics in the field of Indonesia studies around the world, and sending them an email asking them to invite their students to contribute to wikipedia as part of their learning process. I read on the wikipedia signpost newsletter that some academics are even setting assignments which involve contributing to wikipedia. (MichaelJLowe 12:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] A new main page

All right, I have been playing with the main page of this project. Anybody can look into my sandbox here: User:Indon/sandbox2. Please give me your comments in this talk page instead. The navigational infobox is still an old one, but will modify for better and simpler navigation through this project. BTW, can you believe that somebody has asked an A-class assessment since Nov. 2006, but nobody from this project ever touch that article?? It's because nobody knows such an assessment in this project. — Indon (reply) — 10:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Please comment. Somebody asked a new request now in the assessment, but nobody will take a notice because it is deep inside the subpage. Thank you. — Indon (reply) — 08:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

A new main page was replaced. The old version can be seen here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indonesia/old version 1. Basically what I did:

1. No member names in the main page.
2. Direct collaboration nominees, A-scale assessment requests and local Peer Review requests. It is better for somebody who wants to ask for our helps, a new member to start and also for us to know what's the new requests/nominees are.
3. News section is removed. Nobody reads that. We are going to re-activate the newsletter again.
4. Infobox is still needed to be modified.
5. I removed also the banner. Sorry, it's too bright and not very useful.

Please give me your comments here. — Indon (reply) — 09:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Comment

1. The colour of the page is a bit disconcerting - it does not seem to fit with any symbolism that might be relative to Indonesia
2. Good that membership is on a sub page!
3. Otherwise being simpler - it is better!

SatuSuro 10:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree about the color, this was originally made by Imoeng. However, the color makes people calms down or relax to read, doesn't it? :-) — Indon (reply) — 10:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Calming is one thing - identifying a page with red and white in it would be more appropriate IMHO SatuSuro 12:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Newcomer

Hi all. My name is Calupict. I decided to join the assesment team because I think that the job suit me. I hope I can help in so many things. At my first day, I edited the log page which is supposedly edited by bot. I hope I did not do such thing anymore. --Calupict! 07:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Welcome aboard, Calupict. Glad that you can join in. — Indon (reply) — 09:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming conventions

Please note the Maluku Islands and Sulawesi talk pages have an issue to keep the project up to date with an issue that may well return in another form. SatuSuro 13:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Useful resources subpage (?)

MichaelJLowe has initiative to add resources in the main page, but I think we need to list more. Also important to put public domain image resources for Indonesia-related pictures and maps. Shall we create a new sub page? — Indon (reply) — 12:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes SatuSuro 13:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, boss. Merbabu 13:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I'm only the servant. Has somebody read the 2006 Time's Magazine persons of the year? It's YOU, the WP editor, bloggers and other too-many-long-hours-in-front-PC sitting & (hopefully not pretending) working man. :-)) — Indon (reply) — 13:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

My work got smart. They used to block ALL wikipedia but too many complained. Now they seemed to have worked out how to make wikipedia main only available. So for me, i can see the articles, but no log-in, history, talk, contribs - as for edit - forget it. Just as well my wife hasn't worked out how to block it!! ;) Merbabu 13:33, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Hahaha. Right, I'm going to list some of the resources. — Indon (reply) — 13:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

We're all servants of the big snoopers who watch all this stuff....:) SatuSuro 13:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Wohoo, we have a philosopher here. ;-) — Indon (reply) — 13:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

You direct to a locked page? :( SatuSuro 13:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course, to avoid a philosopher editor edits philosophically philosophical materials. ;-) — Indon (reply) — 14:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

OK I get it - its a wise wikpedian editor with wonderfully developed wikaholism wikiedits a wikipedia article in his sleep and taps his pillow four times for the four tildes  ? SatuSuro 14:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For the multicultural amongst us

14 Problem at Malaysian There is currently a buildup of over 750 ambiguous links at the Malaysian disambiguation page. This is an extremely large number - actually, it is roughly double the largest number of ambiguous links of any other page on the English Wikipedia. Fixing the links requires the editor to distinguish between links that are intended to refer to Malay people from links that are intended to refer to the person's nationality or an aspect of the Malaysian nation (which should like to Malaysia. Can some editors who have a good understanding of the human geography of the region volunteer to correct the links?

There might be some amongst us with an equal geographic knowledge of the northern neighbour? Maybe, maybe not? SatuSuro 12:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I did some. I used the list from here: [6] Is that the list you mean?Merbabu 23:31, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes SatuSuro 23:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought he meant [7], though both Malay and Malaysian need work. A change to Template:Malaysia-geo-stub has cut the incoming links to the latter to 300. --Henrygb 11:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tourist Guide Books

Being suggested as a good checking device that is not online. Will update or clarify this section over time. SatuSuro 11:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

They can be good specifically for tourist related info, locations, etc. Also, some are very accesibly written on background info, history, culture, etc. They give a good initial "feel" for the topic. They should not, however, in my opinion be relied upon as a WP:RS, much less cited in most cases.Merbabu 11:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Exactly - I agree with that - I'll re-write to emphasise that later...SatuSuro 11:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... just to remind everyone to be highly selective for offline publications. Otherwise the resource page would be a book directory. It should be mentioned why the book is selected among other similar types. For instance, Clifford Geertz is a renowned scholar, expert for Indonesia, so his general book about Indonesia (if any) is preferred. So is for other guide books. (my-2-cents) — Indon (reply) — 13:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

To reiterate - only two guide books are being indicated here - because of notability and common usage by foreign tourists in Indonesia over the last three decades - - there are about 6 others that I will eventually have stubs/articles for. The emphasis is as further reading status and not as a primary source or reference - to confim and agree with Merbabu's comment - the very mode of compostion of these books is an issue of WP:RS - and almost $50 Australian in current first edition! SatuSuro 13:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Infobox Island

Hi all. I have renovated the {{Infobox Island of Indonesia}}. Please take a look and give me some suggestions (or perhaps rejection). We still need infobox of islands (kepulauan). — Indon (reply) — 22:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I really like it and would support it (unless someone thinks of an issue I haven't). My only concern it its width when actually filled in, as in the case of Java. Merbabu 23:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

In principle - excellent. However - I am confused by what you say we still need infobox of islands - do you mean where more than one island is involved? SatuSuro 02:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks great in general. A few comments... (1) I'd suggest following the lead of the city/mountain/lake infoboxes, and only show the english name and the native name (if there is one). I don't think there is a need for showing colonial or alternate names since this infobox is just a summary. (2) the need for the ports section is questionable. It should either be renamed "major ports" or removed. If you are going to list ports I'd also list major airports. (3) "Province" should be renamed "Provinces" (4) "Inhabitants" should be renamed "Population" (5) You could add an optional "Island Group" field which shows which group of islands it is part of. (MichaelJLowe 03:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC))

You could use the same template for both island and islands by adding an additional option field "Islands". (MichaelJLowe 05:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC))

Thanks for inputs. I'll be back & update it later after spending my weekends with my beloved one. ;-) — Indon (reply) — 10:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

It's cool. Can I pop in and do some adjustments? Imoeng 12:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead - terus terus - you shouldnt need to ask ! SatuSuro 12:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course, Imoeng. ;-) — Indon (reply) — 23:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

LOL maybe not this week, big day tomorrow. Wish me luck everyone! And thanks SatuSuro for the wishes! Imoeng 08:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I've made some changes based on Michael's & Merbabu's inputs. I am keeping "other names" and "native name" for Indonesian name as it is the case in {{Infobox City}} and {{Infobox Scottish island}}. I'm still thinking how to handle Islands option for kepulauan, but Imoeng's skill after his exam (I really wish you will beat the exams easily, Imoeng) will handle this problem. One question for islands shared with other countries (Borneo, Papua and Timor). Any idea how to make a consistent template with other islands? I'd expect there would be optionals countries and provinces/states per country (???) Should we create a separate "Infobox Island", but this would be general for other countries? — Indon (reply) — 15:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Agree with all the changes so far. Some additional comments: (1) would be good to add a coordinates field (should be called "coordinates" or "coords"), as per most geography related infoboxes (2) the precedent set by the country and city infoboxes is to list the English and native names right next to each other, so there is the potential to remove the "Name and location" heading and move location to geography (3) Regarding Borneo, etc. I would rename the province parameter "admin_divisions" (or similiar) and add an additional parameter "admin_divisions_title". For Borneo the title would be "Countries", and the "admin_divisions" parameter would list the countries, with the provinces listed in brackets. (4) I think this template should eventually be renamed Infobox Island, after making it generic enough to be used for non-Indonesian islands. This goal isn't too far away. (MichaelJLowe 15:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC))

Yeah, later on the template can be used for general island article. Why is there no Infobox Island? (or maybe I miss that?) Thanks, I'll give the update report later. — Indon (reply) — 16:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I added the coordinates parameter to the infobox. The only other existing island infobox besides the Scottish one is Template:Country_infobox_data_Christmas_Island. It doesn't surprise me, since until recently there wasn't a lake infobox either. (MichaelJLowe 18:38, 14 January 2007 (UTC))

BTW, with ID having 17,508 islands, I hope you are not going to add them all :-) (MichaelJLowe 18:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC))

With the recent experience of List of volcanoes in Indonesia, I should create stubs for List of islands in Indonesia to be featured. Let me see, 17,508 / 365 then on average I should create 50 stubs each day to finish the list by the end of 2007! ;-) Just kidding. Hey, thanks for adding coordinates parameter. — Indon (reply) — 19:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Location image

Hi all. I have activated the Cartography section of this project. Who wants to contribute there? I also made the {{Location map Indonesia}} as standardization for city locator with Indonesia image; some countries has used this locator format. It uses only 1 image and take latitude and longitude information of the city to put the city marker in the image. So there is no need to create one image for each city article. Examples are given here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia/Cartography. I'm planning to create more blank maps of big islands for small cities.

However, when I wanted to update some city articles using the {{Infobox city}}, there is a conflict in the image map parameter. I want to propose to create infobox special for Indonesia, rather than modifying the infobox which will create havoc in WP. It's similar with the {{Infobox Indian jurisdiction}} which uses the Location map template. It's very handy and good for standardization. So, what's your opinion? — Indon (reply) — 10:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Simply brilliant Indon. Thanks a fantastic innovation! (MichaelJLowe 12:38, 20 January 2007 (UTC))

Actually, I didn't invent that. I was amazed also with {{Location map}} template. It's simply handy to use only one image and re-used for thousands articles. — Indon (reply) — 12:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

But you've still done the work to find it and set it up :-) Any idea how to get it to work with {{Infobox City}} MichaelJLowe 14:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Woops, I didn't read your comment above fully. Could we add an additional parameter to {{Infobox City}} to support the map? I would image there would be support given the wider potential for use. I'm reluctant to support creating project specific templates when there is a general one available which almost supports our needs. (MichaelJLowe 14:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC))

The infobox city is quite complicated and I don't want to add one small modification only for the image map. Mostly a lot of parameters in the infobox are not used for Indonesian cities. The generic locator image is also being discussed in Template_talk:Infobox_City#Red_dot_on_blank_map and I think it is good to separate country-specific cities. Besides India, German has a very good infobox city, see Template:Infobox German Location. — Indon (reply) — 16:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

..and also the specialized infobox city can be simplified and easier to use. For instance, by giving the "lat" and "long" parameters, the template can automatically define the coordinate of the city and also call the {{Location map Indonesia}} template. — Indon (reply) — 16:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Indonesian is disambiguation now

Once more, a disambig fan has made Indonesian into disambiguation page, which is practically empty. Hundreds of links to the original Indonesian language is now broken. Just to let you guys know. — Indon (reply) — 19:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

What's stopping us just putting it back? Merbabu 00:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, it appears there are actually a few pages linked that refer to "Indonesian something" that is not the language. Ie, Indonesian food is linked to that DAB page. I've often tried to clean that up and always link the language to "Indonesian language" and never to "Indonesian" as I kinda knew something like this might happen. To link to the languge we need to type [[Indonesian language|Indonesian]] and to link to anything else "Indonesian" simply type [[Indonesia]]n which will direct to the country page. Better still, would be something more specific. Take for example "Islam in Indonesia". Don't link to [[Islam]] and [[Indonesia]] individually, better link like this [[Islam in Indonesia]]. Merbabu 00:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC) --Merbabu 00:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Update: OK, i fixed up a whole lot from here: [8]. Ie, made them either [[Indonesia]]n or [[Indonesian language|Indonesian]]. there is still a lot to do. Merbabu 02:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I have left a message on the disambig persons talk page - felt it was the only thing to do. SatuSuro 04:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, in principle the dab page is not such a bad idea. Although many links to Indonesian language link to [[Indonesian]], if it is reverted back, there are many links to [[Indonesian]] which are not intended to be to the language. Thus, the best thing to do is to fix the links themselves. I've had a go, and Michael is doing so now. Merbabu 04:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

My apologies! I hadn't considered checking here before turning the page into a disambig; sorry for the trouble I've caused. From what I've seen (though I could be wrong) the number of links that don't concern the language is comparable to those that do, thus the change to a disambig page. In hindsight I probably should have fixed the links before doing the conversion, rather than the other way around. As such I've reverted my edit temporarily; when all (or at least the majority) of the links have been fixed, then I'll change it back, assuming nobody is objectionable to that. --Talon Artaine ^(talk) 10:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I just found a nice toy to fix disambig links. It's fun. Since I know about the subject, I'm going to put back Indonesian into disambig page and then help you to fix that. Sorry for this mess, Talon. You don't have to apologize. You have reminded us to be a good WP editor. :-) — Indon (reply) — 11:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Status: I think all of the necessary articles link to the disambig page have been correctly linked. (I love the tool :-) — Indon (reply) — 14:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

So in the end it all turned out ok - apologies to Talon for sounding a bit bossy - thanks that you are able to join in the fun... SatuSuro 14:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Using Indonesian terms

How would you all feel about using Indonesian words and nomenclatures in all Indonesian administrative division article texts? eg, use provinsi or propinsi) instead of province in the text of all Indonesian articles, not just the titles? --Bob 04:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I would strongly object - this is the English language Wikipedia. (MichaelJLowe 05:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC))

ditto - doesn't work like that. We don't call Germany 'Deutschland'. Why would you want to do this? Merbabu 06:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

There are already at id:Provinsi. — Indon (reply) — 09:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Because wikipedia should be normalised across articles. There is a heated debate at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_France#Anglicisation regarding this. I feel that if Indonesian articles uses English words then French articles should use English words. However, if French words remain in French articles then this debate must move to other projects so that they also conform to a single uniform style. If you want to keep using English words, make your voice heard on the above link. --Bob 17:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

If it is decided that French-related articles are to be in French that is unfortunate, but it is no reason that Indonesian articles should also be. Merbabu 19:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Es Chendol

A funny thing popped up on my change list... mmmm, yes please... (MichaelJLowe 11:50, 26 January 2007 (UTC))

mb 03:07 Chendol (diff; hist) . . (+14) . . Thijs!bot (Talk | contribs) (robot Adding: es:Cendol)

Could I please have a teh botol bot please SatuSuro 11:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

"robot Adding: es:Cendol" ? I wouldn't drink that. :-)) Thanks Michael. — Indon (reply) — 13:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

What are you guys talking about? Mabuk? I didn't know one could get drunk on es cendol! he he Merbabu 13:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Cendol seems harmless, but I've read that rice wine (or was it coconut?) was very popular in West Sumatra before the Padri Wars :-) (MichaelJLowe 13:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC))

Oh, I love cendol a lot, but not with a robot adding it. Merbabu should probably know about Cendol Elizabeth in Bandung. :-) (try G search: cendol elizabeth) BTW, it's a coconut milk. — Indon (reply) — 13:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Thats it, I'm booking a flight to Bandung now! :-) (MichaelJLowe 14:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC))

Well, you don't have to go all the way to Bandung. Try this. Merbabu 14:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The good ones I know in the eastern suburbs are almost as far as Bandung from me. I have to live with Malaysian instead. :-) (MichaelJLowe 15:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Google books

You probably already know Google Scholar ([9]]), but have you messed around with Google Books ([10]). Its been some time since I've used it, but they've been scanning book like crazy I'm really amazed by how many books they have on there now, many of which I've not heard of or seen before in my own interest areas. One good aspect is that they often provide a preview of content even for copyright books. So for instance, have a look at this search for Borobudur [11]. Just from looking at the content preview, I think the Hindu king related to Borobudur you might be referring to is King Indra (A.D. 782-812) - he seems to have a Hindu name, but he may have been Buddhist. The two books at the top of that search query have a lot of info. (MichaelJLowe 10:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC))

Cool! I've used also this google books a couple of times. If we peek the scanned book and found what we are looking for, then I guess it is safe to cite the book, isn't it? Thanks, Michael. — Indon (reply) — 15:58, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any reason not to cite them. (MichaelJLowe 04:23, 29 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Endangered languages

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Endangered languages is up and running at WP:ENLANG. --Ling.Nut 03:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recognized contents section

Somebody added this on the main page. Do you guys think it is a good time to start a new sub-page called "Good contents" ? BTW, I am a bit reluctant to put formerly featured or good article pages. There is already {{ArticleHistory}} template that shows the milestones of each article, including formerly X status. — Indon (reply) — 08:50, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Look who's now showing at today's Picture of the Day?

No, it's not in Wikipedia. Here, at commons:. — Indon (reply) — 09:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Indonesia travel article in Washington Post

[12], [13], [14], [15] (MichaelJLowe 22:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Rationlisation of island-related categories

I am engaged in a project to rationalise the island-categories. I have run into a number of WikiPorjects along the way, and in applying myself to the Malay Archipelago, I have been told to discuss it here first.

I do not change anything of substance. I am only concerned with arranging the categories so that they function neatly and logically, and so they accurately represent the geography in a structured way. This will enable people browsing the categories to find articles easily, and learn about the islands of the world. Within articles, I add only an occasional internal link.

The islands are organised physically (by location in oceans and seas), by geo type (archipelago, island-chain, etc) and politically (by country), in separate category-trees. See main cat Category:Islands (which is improving), and in particular, Category:Islands of Southeast Asia and Category:Islands of Oceania (which is still quite disorganised).

So far, the main changes I have made to this region are -

• creation of category "Greater Sunda Islands" < "Melanesia" < "Islands of Southeast Asia".
• creation of category "Lesser Sunda Islands" < "Melanesia" < "Islands of Southeast Asia".

(they aren't actually in the Melanisa cat yet, - this was my next task)

• add all of the islands in Indonesia, Malaysia, East Timor and Brunei, to tese 2 categories.
• move other islands of the Malay Archipelago into "Melanesia" < "Islands of Southeast Asia", eg. "new Guinea".
• various minor changes to prevent duplication of articles in both parent and child cats; and other details.

I will hold off the Malay Archipelago for a while. If anyone would like to discuss, go ahead. Bards 16:31, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Bards, thanks for posting your proposal. Some initial comments:- You might want to check your geography references again, because to my knowledge the Greater Sunda Islands are not part of Melanesia, and only some of the Lesser Sunda Islands are part of it. I'm a bit concerned about the categorization of islands, since there is quite a deep hierarchy (eg. Malay Archipelago->Sunda Islands->Lesser Sunda Islands->X Archipelago->Y Island). There are also overlapping classifications, so part of Melanesia overlaps with part of the Lesser Sunda Islands. If the construction of categories and the organization of islands into categories is not well thought out it will make islands hard to find. (MichaelJLowe 17:14, 4 February 2007 (UTC))

Yes, I have been deliberately flattening that hierarchy. Eg. skipping both Malay Archipelago, and Sunda Islands, so you get Southeast Asia > (not Melanesia, as you suggest) Greater Sunda or Lesser Sunda > individual islands. Another option is to group together all Sunda Islands in the same category. Regarding Melanesia, my proposals there were unverified, and no doubt my investigation would have uncovered what you say. But thank you for pointing it out. If there is overlap between Melanesia and Lesser Sunda, they will have to be positioned side by side in the hierarchy, and some islands assigned to both. Bards 17:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

A further point for discussion is the naming of the region under the "Islands by ocean or sea" category. Currently it is under "Islands" > "Islands by ocean or sea" > "Southeast Asia". But that refers to a land mass, and I would like a maritime classification in keeping with the others there, eg. "Maritime Southeast Asia. This region is unusual in that it forms the boundary between two oceans, and is not encompassed by one particular sea. I have not meddled with this, due to the proposed merger between article "Maritime Southeast Asia" and another article. Bards 17:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Sastrowardoyo Family

User:RahadyanS made so many entry related with Sastrowardoyo family. You can see at his userpage what are the pages that he made. Judging from his name, I became suspicious that he is Rahadyan Sastrowardoyo; see Hartriono_B._Sastrowardoyo. Doesn't it against wikipedia policy to write about our own family; eventhough I think that some member at Sastrowardoyo family is deserved to get a wikipedia article because their notability. Calupict! Speak to me 03:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Isssues of WP:COI and WP:N are interlinked on this one... SatuSuro 03:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dictionaries

Why the deletions of links to other online Dictionaries? I see that Kamus.net is the only online Indo-English dictionary linked to from this page. Why is that? Moreover, why is my link to IndoDic.com continually removed? Do the autors have a financial interest in Kamus.net or is this just because of jealous vandalism? Do they think that kamus.net is the only online dictionary worthy of consideration? IndoDic contains 2 full dictionaries of 59,000 (eng-indo) and 51,000 (indo-english) words. Indo words are arranged in true alphabetical order, including most affixes. Word family listings are available for both English and Indonesain words. These dictionaries took 8 years to research and compile. They are freely available for learners of Bahasa Indonesia. Hard- and soft-cover books are published by Gramedia and available at bookstores all over Indonesia. The links to IndoDic.com need to remain. Otherwise, I'll have to continually re-edit this page. Tgilson 02:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)tgilson

You should read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. MichaelJLowe 03:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

And also WP:3RR SatuSuro 08:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How many island in Indonesia

The first sentence of the Indonesia page says that "Indonesia, officially the Republic of Indonesia (Indonesian: Republik Indonesia), is a nation of 17,508 islands[2]." But the first line of the Geography section refers to "Indonesia's 18,108 islands." Which is it? Any way to get agreement on such a basic fact about the country? MylesCallum 08:22, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Good point - there are indeed inconsistencies on this issue SatuSuro 08:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

FYI, there was a story the other day which said Indonesia expects to loose 2,000 islands by 2030 due to global warming. (MichaelJLowe 08:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC))

I really think there need to be benchmark against a source that is very very very reliable - I will not accept the cia fact book, encarta or anything like that - we really need to be consistent in the project as to this as it is a perennial issue - we need to have a definitive answer! SatuSuro 08:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

The UN says 17,508 - see [16], and Indonesian government websites agree (eg. [17]) MichaelJLowe 08:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that - In that case someone needs to cleanup our project pages that mention that number for consstency... SatuSuro 09:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the good responses. I agree with SatuSuro that it really needs to be fixed. Having two such glaringly discrepant figures in the same article is the kind of thing that sabotages the authenticity of these pieces. MylesCallum 04:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia is failing

You guys might be interesting to read this Wikipedia:Wikipedia is failing and join in the discussion here Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia is failing (MichaelJLowe 01:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC))

I've been thinking about the negative reactions my reverting of unsourced (too often large scale) additions and and I was starting to think that maybe I was being a bit too extreme. But, that article convinces me that I'm doing the right thing. We need quality not quantity and quality means verifiability, not just more "i wrote it off the top of my head" or "everyone knows it". Merbabu 11:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I've no problems with bulk reverting if done at the right place and time. The higher the article quality the more careful we need to be about what goes in. (MichaelJLowe 15:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Wikipedia overlay for Google Earth

There is a freshly updated dynamic overlay of Wikipedia entries for Google Earth available here [18]. Sumatra has pretty good coverage now (volcanoes, cities, provinces, lakes, national parks, etc), and Jakarta is starting to get interesting. Other parts of Indonesia are of varying quality. (MichaelJLowe 11:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Category tagging

Please note that categories will be tagged with a non-article tag soon so that we can review what categories exist within the Indonesia Project - they will not affect anything else - any questions please check with me - please do not alter them - thanks SatuSuro 22:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terrorism

It appears that a project-wide discussion is required on the subject of how this subject is developed within the project. It has been developed over time with articles that contribute towards an understanding - by looking at the components of the larger issues. However non project editors have broached the issue - and as a project we need to find a good wikipedian consensus - or even airing of ideas as to how to approach the subject - as we have been doing by developing articles that we can deal with - with no 'speculative;' non encyclopediac style or attitude enroaching on our articles. It is a sensistive subject - but we need to deal with it, specially as there are issues creeping into the projects domain from other areas.

Any comment at all would be appreciated as to how WP Indonesia should go on this - developing the project with good encyclopediac articles and sticking to wikipedia policies. SatuSuro 23:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pagaruyung Palace destroyed by fire (again)

A fire caused extensive damage to Basa Pagaruyung Palace in Tanahdatar regency, West Sumatra, on Tuesday evening. Detik.com news portal quoted a witness, identified only as Andri, as saying the fire, believed to have been sparked by lightning, began at about 8 p.m. Some photos here:

[19] [20] [21]

I guess this is why ijuk has been replaced by corrugated iron as the preferred roofing material.

(MichaelJLowe 02:47, 1 March 2007 (UTC))

That's terrible. Merbabu 03:01, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh man, is it gone now? I am planning to go there during my vacation, oh dear! — Indon (reply) — 08:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Man, what a shame. --Bwmodular 09:05, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I remember reading that by the time Raffles visited Pagaruyung in 18xx it had already been burnt to the ground three times by the Padri movement, and nothing existed when he visited. It was also destroyed in 1966, and now in 2007. They really need to consult experts to help prevent it from happening again. I just hope the historic artifacts stored in the building have been saved. Indon, you can visit my wife's RG near Bukittinggi instead, it has just been renovated :-) (MichaelJLowe 09:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC))

Have we asked you why don't you put photos of your wife's RG on the RG article? I mean, you've actually put your wife in a few INdonesia articles, why not put her house on too. ;) Merbabu 09:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, thanks Michael, but surely I have to (obliged) to visit my wife's RG at Sungai Puar first :-). Oh why didn't you create that page yet. ;P — Indon (reply) — 09:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

There are other better examples, since it doesn't have any external carvings. Besides, there is already a whole website for it - http://bundohadjisah.org/ :-) (MichaelJLowe 09:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC))

BTW Indon, there are many West Sumatra articles without any photos yet, so make sure you visit the right places and take lots of photos ;-) (MichaelJLowe 10:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Anyone speak German?

I'd like to ask the owner of the following Adityawarman image for permission to use it under the appropriate license, but my German isn't sufficient [22] (MichaelJLowe 13:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] barnstar deleted

Hey, I'm not a member of this project, but I was just looking at barnstars, and noticed the barnstar of national merit for Indonesia had been deleted because (apparently) someone forgot to fill out the licensing info. Dunno if you care or not; just FYI. --Ling.Nut 21:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SEA Project

Please note that some Indonesian project editors have been concerned to see the possibility of what appears to be a start to joint tag Indonesian project articles with that of the SEA Project. There are compelling arguments for and against such a tagging project, please see the conversation there. SatuSuro 12:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

And here is the link: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Southeast Asia. — Indon (reply) — 12:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help !!

Could you please (anybody from the project) take a look at the main page and assess Adam Air 574 request for A-class ? The editor, who is a non-member, has been kindly updated, managed and improved the article to its current state. Your opinion (oppose/support) is really needed and will be a good start for assessing other A-class articles in our project. Pleeeeaassee help !! :-) — Indon (reply) — 10:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm reluctant to rate it due to my involvement with the article. Maybe we should submit it for GA status? (MichaelJLowe 10:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC))

The editor has submitted to WP:GAC. I suggested him so, because our project is really small to assess A-class. BTW, should we close our A-class assessment page? — Indon (reply) — 11:01, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

GA has now been passed for the article. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 07:28, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your hardword in the article. I believe GA is higher than A-class in the WikiProject Indonesia case. Congrats! — Indon (reply) — 12:12, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Batik spammer

I raises this issue into the project. There is currently the same user with anon IP: User:205.167.7.18 (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs), User:87.88.195.205 (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) and registered User:Aberges (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs), persistently added one specific external link. I suspect (s)he avoids WP:3RR being blocked. I have raised the issue in the Batik's talk page, but (s)he is still adding the same link in the article. Could somebody weigh-in there? Thanks. — Indon (reply) — 09:04, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Have alerted a friendly admin - just hope he turns up and has a squiz :) SatuSuro 12:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bangka-Belitung logo

I just uploaded this logo Image:Bangka belitung coa.png for Bangka-Belitung to Commons. It is different from the logo shown in the Infobox on the Indonesian Wiki [23]. I downloaded the commons image from the Bangka-belitung website [24] so I think its probably right. Could someone with good Bahasa Indonesia please point the id page to the commons logo with an explanation, if you think I'm right about this. --Bwmodular 16:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Ben, if I am not mistaken, the logo you uploaded is for the Bangka regency, not for the province. I can't find the province website, one result from google is currently down. — Indon (reply) — 16:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

if I am not mistaken. That's very tactfully put, Indon! :) I read 'Propinsi Kepulauan Bangka Belitung' but didn't notice the 'Kabupaten' at the top. OK, I'll overwrite what we have in commons with the image from the id wiki, and also revert a couple of other changes I made.--Bwmodular 16:56, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Syahrir Wiki Page

Hello, Turning to Indonesian experts on Wiki to see if they can help in the cleaning up, or editing of Syahrir's page. I initially tagged it as a vanity page since it's very non-Wiki in style and it only seems that two people who are connected to Syahrir are maintaining it. Could someone with Wiki and Indonesian skills visit the page and add positive contributions?

NOTE: While I was typing this in, the page in reference was indeeded deleted. But if there is an admin here who can access the deletion and look it over, it would be appreciated. The related user talk for the user Syahrir page is here. Thanks! BaseballDetective 08:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The article should be Sutan Sjahrir. I am going to redirect the page. — Indon (reply) — 08:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response, but doing that might cause more confussion. We're talking about two different people. The Sjahrir in question in the article that was deleted was a political dissident jailed in 1974 and active in current politics [25]. Please see what we can do to give this Syahrir a valid Wiki pressence. BaseballDetective 09:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coats of Arms

Lots of the Province pages have no 'logo' in their infoboxes. Is there any reason why I shouldn't take the images from the Bahasa Indonesia Wiki here and upload them to Commons with the PD-IDGov tag as used with Image:West_Sumatra_coa.svg? The ID one's are all uploaded under fair use rationale, but I don't think the source is listed. I suppose that could be a problem as I don't know where the original images come from. If I were to create svg versions of the ID images, would that be legit? Not much of an expert on these matters.--Bwmodular 15:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

In my experience the quality of the ones on the Indonesian wikiproject sometimes isn't too good. The provincial government websites often contain a page which has the logo (lambang) and an explanation of the meaning of it, so this is probably the best source. Being government websites I presume PD-IDGov is ok to use. (MichaelJLowe 20:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC))

The provincial govt websites were my first port of call (If you mean the 'go.id' pages, such as Bengkulu and Lampung) but the pictures on those pages aren't much better - pretty low resolution, and often with a multicoloured background which will take some editing out. (BTW Neither of these pages seem to be available at this moment, but they certainly were yesterday - West Java is there OK though.) I've also looked at the regional pages on the main govt website, such as Lampungbut again, the pictures are pretty low res. Are these the sites you're referring to? --Bwmodular 11:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I guess it depends upon the website, but you are right it is quite patchy. My experience is mostly with the West Sumatran cities and regencies. I think there are some which are ok to use, such as [26], [27], [28], etc. An additional approach would be to ask an admin to recover the previously deleted images on the EN wikipedia and slap the PD-IDGov tag on them? (MichaelJLowe 11:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC))

Were they any better quality? If so, do we have any friendly admins who we could ask? Or how does one go about making a general admin request--Bwmodular 11:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I think from memory some were better here. SatuSuro should be able to provide advise on admin issues. (MichaelJLowe 11:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC))

reviewing the latest on this page i noted my moniker being mentioned - I have just the admin for you - I'll drop a note... :) SatuSuro 12:00, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Great - I've also found that a google image search for lambang produces some good quality images, although I have to sift through lots of irrelevant images to find the provincial ones. If we can restore the deleted ones and then I'll try and find better quality ones for any that need improving. And I'll give them all a transparent background if they don't already have one.--Bwmodular 12:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Presume that since I got the message I'm just the admin you need. Ok what are the images that need to undeleted I'll have have a look. Gnangarra 12:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

If you weren't doing it already, a Google search by site may be useful, eg. "site:go.id" (MichaelJLowe 12:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC))

Well, the only ones that I can safely say have definitely been deleted are these Image:Logo Sumut.jpg and Image:Logo Bengkulu.jpg, because they are referenced in the provincial image boxes. However there may well have been others. Michael do you know?--Bwmodular 13:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

That plus Image:Logo Nad.jpg (MichaelJLowe 14:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC))

OK, as you can see from my sandbox we now have a copy of every provincial logo except for Papua Barat. If you can find one for there, do upload it. The West Sulawesi logo is very poor quality, so keep your eyes open for a better quality copy of that one also. --Bwmodular 22:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Will try to find the logo. BTW, here's a useful site I found which has details on provinces, cities and regencies of Indonesia: [29], [30] (MichaelJLowe 23:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC))

V useful, thanks for that. Interesting that even this page has a 'no image' notice for logos of Sulbar and Papua Barat! --Bwmodular 10:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DAB links in Infobox

I've just added an infobox to the NBT province page. No matter how I try, I can't get the capital to display as Mataram, but to point to Mataram (city). If you use the normal syntax, Mataram (city)|Mataram it displays as Mataram (city). I've tried all sorts, but can't get it working. Am I being dumb, or is this a problem with infoboxes in general? Never noticed it before.--Bwmodular 12:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Its a problem with this specific infobox. I will fix it, but it will mean that all the existing capital names need to be enclosed with [[ ]] characters. (MichaelJLowe 13:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC))