Talk:American Idol

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	To-do list for American Idol:	edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
Remove BLP concerns. Rewrite season synopses for seasons 1, 2, 3, and some of 4 to include information about the season and not just what happened after. Thorough copyedit. Find sources and use inline citations. Find season 4 TV screenshot of winner. Trim the obscenely long synopses. Delink unnecessary links. Remove images from overview, move to season 5 article. The overview is strictly generalization, for people who don't know how AI works, not about any season. Having those images in the overview is POV.
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Portions of this talk page have been archived. Archive 1

Contents 1 recent edit 2 Encyclopedic value of reality show participants 3 Prize? 4 American Idol template 5 Season 5 (current season) 6 AJ GIl 7 Most vandalized page 8 Uncited claim about Mandisa Hundley in the Controversy section 9 Semi-Protected 10 Bottom 3/2 11 Article removed from Wikipedia:Good articles 12 Season 6 template 13 Instruments 14 Guest Judges 15 Idol Ranks section 16 Wordiness 17 Contestant navigation templates... help needed 18 Origins of contestant fan base names 19 Age 20 Title Card 21 Spin-offs 22 how do you reconcile these two statements: 23 Use of templates for elimination histories 24 Moving the seasons 25 List of band songs 26 ABBA for season six? 27 Justin Timberlake - Season 1 runner up?! 28 William Hung Sales? 29 Las Vegas Odds Makers controversy? 30 facts 31 BLP concerns and tone 32 Season 6 in the UK 33 Victoria Beckham a Judge? 34 A new section: Awards won by American Idol Alumni 35 Season synopsis and post AI career bios are way too long 36 American Idol Sponsorship 37 International networks broadcasting American Idol 38 Taylor Hicks top selling alumni 39 Restore List of American Idol contestants? 40 song

[edit] recent edit

someone switched the album bestsellers 2 and 3 (clay aiken and carrie underwood) dunno which is right so not reverting, but plz check Qleem 20:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Encyclopedic value of reality show participants

My brother, Erik Schuessler, was a participant in another Fremantle Media production, The Complex. His Wikipedia entry was slated for deletion on the basis that it was insufficiently famous. The Complex was not even vaugely as popular as American Idol but was still a FOX production and aired on American prime time television. To me it raises the (biased in my case) question of whether my brother is or is not encyclopedically (is that a word?) famous. If not, where is the cutoff? At this point I've taken an acedemic interest in the matter beyond my own obvious nepotism. Ean 23:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prize?

I read this whole article and nowhere did I see the prize mentioned. What are the contestants playing for? I assume it is some manner of recording contract, but can anyone include some information on the actual prize? 69.142.21.24 00:44, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American Idol template

Great template for American Idol page.

However, not really necessary to add to each contestant's bio page especially if American Idol is linked on their page. The template is more about the show's history than the individual's. Otherwise, templates for any show (or whatever item mentioned in a bio) would be added to an individual bio page... cluttering the page.

Additional info for template:

AI albums missing on the template:

• American Idol Season 2: All-Time Classic American Love Songs
• American Idol Season 1 & 2: The Great Holiday Classics (released October 14, 2003)
• American Idol Season 1: American Idol Greatest Moments (released October 1, 2002)

Bkstone 23:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I've made a suggestion to unclutter the template at Template talk:American Idol. Please share your comments. Coffee 01:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Season 5 (current season)

I don't think this should be tampered with any further until after the show is over, IMO. This is an in-progress section, to see the edits in action go to American Idol (Season 5). —Chantessy 12:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AJ GIl

On the young age of people 18 and under you did not mention 17 year old A.J Gil from season 1.

[edit] Most vandalized page

This is definitely, without a doubt, one of Wikipedia's most vandalized pages. —Chantessy 18:44, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uncited claim about Mandisa Hundley in the Controversy section

There is a commented out paragraph in the Controversy section that violates Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words and [[1]]. Please either cite it or remove it completely.

207.173.97.150 19:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

That's funny that it is as I came here more to ask the relevance of TV related junk in Wiki and Indymedia sites. I mean sheesh are we trying to create an alternative to the mainstream media or are we going to go along hum drum with all the junk they feed us? I say this article should be a canidate for deletion! American Idol has no bearing on my life and almost nothing to do with any others save some pop culture victims in North America.

On the other hand I can also see why it should remain as such shows represent the antithesis of the spirit of Wikipedia. Programming a very narrow and mainstream view of music/culture when they tell you it will be on the old television. Any thoughts?

Foner in Canada

I read the following on TV.com: "Idol 5 contestants Bucky Covington, & Mandisa have currently signed record deals. Bucky's first album will be released April 17th 2007. Mandisa's first album release date is still TBA." So, they will soon need to be included on the list of album sales. --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 02:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-Protected

I have semi-protected the page for cautionary reasons. If anyone objects, they can remove the protection thingy. I have a feeling someone is going to regret this. Pacific Coast Highway ^{blah • my tracks} 02:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm the one who removed the tag :-) Right now, there is a little edit war brewing between a new user and an IP. 3RRs are in order I think, but I think I might block for at most an hour or so at the moment. I'll semiprotect it if the vandalism escalates any further. Of course, another administrator would be most welcome to pitch in and help out too :-) --HappyCamper 02:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll do what I can. The navigational pop-ups help out alot right now! : ) Pacific Coast Highway ^{blah • my tracks} 02:46, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I know what you mean! Excellent :-) --HappyCamper 02:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Come on. Why is it inappropriate to semi-protect the article? I think plenty of articles have been protected before they got this bad. Vandalism is continuing in full force on the page, and when those who use "navigational pop-ups" are offline, no one else will be able to halt the vandalism. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 02:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

True, I gotta take a shower soon. Pacific Coast Highway ^{blah • my tracks} 03:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bottom 3/2

There is a reference to "the bottom 3/2" which I removed. How is it possible to be in the bottom three halves? [2] --HappyCamper 02:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind...on the Taylor Hicks article, it means refers to "bottom three or two". --HappyCamper 03:12, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article removed from Wikipedia:Good articles

This article was formerly listed as a good article, but was removed from the listing because the Article is not well written, it does in fact read tediously. I would refer editors to Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings, or The Chronicles of Narnia in which every installment of the series isn't gone into in detail, hardly even an overview. The season by season recaps need to be shortened more than they already have.

Also I take issue with the "Imitations produced by other companies" section. Calling something imitation has a negative connotation (like imitation Pepsi) and it can imply that the second product is inferior. And with serious or formerly serious competitors like Nashville Star labled as an imitator, I think this could violate NPOV policy. Also some things like Saturday Night Live sketches are listed as imitations when they are more technically parody.TonyJoe 03:03, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

comment - can also use Back to the Future trilogy as a guide. Lehla

• Tedious doesn't even describe it, it's overly explained (yes there is such a thing) & i've found links that redirect to the same article, there is far too much detail but not enough explanation.ZlatkoT 08:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Season 6 template

I've been wondering which template we should use for next season. Do you think that the one that was used for season 5 should be used or the old one used for seasons 1-4? I prefer the one we used for season 5, but I would like to try and form a consensus so that I can create the template for season 6, which will be under Template:AI6ElimHist unless a different name is recommended. --Evan Robidoux 22:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I like season 5's better. Tennis Dynamite 21:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Instruments

Does AI have any rules concerning contestants and instruments? Are contestants allowed to play instruments (whether it be guitar, violin, piano, trumpet, flute etc.) at any point in the competition?--Secret Agent Man 01:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

In Season 5 the winner, Taylor Hicks, played his harmonica in a group song with the Top Six Boys in the Finale, but I haven't seen anyone else do it it except for when Bucky Covington played his guitar when the Top 9 were meeting Kenny Rogers. These weren't during their performances, so I guess it doesn't count as during the competition. Tennis Dynamite 21:22, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

AI is first and foremost a singing competition, so I guess they skip the instrumental stuff to focus on their vocals. I don't know that there are any specific rules against it, though. -- Anonymous Coward, 20:30, 16 June 2006 (CET)

[edit] Guest Judges

Where can I find a list of the ongoing / past judges from American Idol? That is my entire reason for visiting this article but there doesn't seem to be any real mention. I think a list of these would help increase the usefulness and reference of this article, as well as serve as a reference for AI fans. Table at the bottom or list form would both be OK. Bsharkey 23:20, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Idol Ranks section

I don't think we need that section. The American Idol finalist box on the side gives the same information and more. -- ArglebargleIV 19:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way, that box needs to be Americinized. I'm just too lazy to do it. --Tennis Dynamite 18:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. Also someone recently added "runner-up" to all the 2nd place finishers, I reverted that as well since it's pretentious. User:Arual 16:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing it! --Tennis Dynamite 21:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wordiness

The season by season recaps are too much for this atricle itself. I'm going to move them into their proper place soon unless someone objects. Forthelulz 01:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)forthelulz

I agree -- by the proper place you mean the individual season articles? Just one summary paragraph is needed, I would think. -- ArglebargleIV 01:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contestant navigation templates... help needed

I've made these navigation templates for the individual contestant pages (finalists only). If anyone has the time and patience to add these to the ~50 articles of American Idol finalists, the help would be much appreciated.

• Template:American Idol 1
• Template:American Idol 2
• Template:American Idol 3
• Template:American Idol 4
• Template:American Idol 5

Actually, I made Template:American Idol 5 about a month ago and I've already added them to the articles of the 12 finalists. Just need help with the other four seasons. Thanks. :) Coffee 11:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origins of contestant fan base names

I would like iti f we had a section for the explanation for contestant fan base names, such as Kathatine's McPheever, Taylor's Soul Patrol, etc. I believe it originated from the MLS Soccer teams having fanbase names of their teams. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Falconleaf (talk • contribs).

Considering the extremely low profile the MLS has in the US, I would doubt that. Groups tend to name themselves out of a sense of identity and separateness, and the most likely source of that tendency is probably both common to and much older than with AI or MLS. -- ArglebargleIV 18:42, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

American Idol is a big joke. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.113.89.160 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Age

What is the need in placing everybody who is under a certain age?

[edit] Title Card

I put the title card back, because in my opinon it looks better then the logo someone put up. --WestJet 19:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spin-offs

Everything in that section was in list of American Idol spin-offs so I took it off. Arual

[edit] how do you reconcile these two statements:

There was much discussion in the communication industry about the phone system being overloaded, and that more than 150 million votes were dropped, making the voting invalid

After a nationwide vote of more than 65 million votes in total - more than the first two seasons combined - Fantasia Barrino won the American Idol title

.......

--Froth 23:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

65 million votes were cast, but many times more calls were made, the vast majority of which ended in busy signals. Busy signals are not counted in the vote totals. -- Moondigger 00:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of templates for elimination histories

Templates were used to show the elimination histories of contestants. In particular, Template:AI4ElimHist and Template:AI5ElimHist were used in American Idol (Season 4) and American Idol (Season 5), respectively. These templates are intended for these articles only. (A template should be designed for several articles.) This is not a good idea because whenever one of these articles is loaded, the server must load two files (the article and the template, not including other templates in the article). Whereas if the template was merged with the article, only one file is loaded. See Wikipedia:Transclusion costs and benefits for more information.

I nominated the two templates above for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion based on the above. The elimination histories have been merged into the articles.

I don't know what was the intent of separating the elimination histories. If the size of the article was too big, the elimination table does not count per Wikipedia:Article size. For American Idol (Season 6) and onward, the elimination table should be within the article, not separated. Tinlinkin 06:30, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving the seasons

Why don't the seasons put their information on the individual pages? They're the biggest reason why the page is so excessively long. There could be brief summaries of each season on the main AI page but the long, unwieldy, currently standing season summaries should get moved. Some of the season pages dont even have much info in them, for instance season 1. Dan Guan 03:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of band songs

I heard a while ago that you can't sing from certain bands at the audition..if this is true where is a list of bands that are banned?--Poodleman 05:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ABBA for season six?

From the article:

"Simon Cowell reported on the season premiere that week seven's challenge for the contestants will be ABBA songs. Nothing has been said as to whether the original bandmates will help coach or judge that week's competition"

I don't think he was necessarily being serious, I think he was just saying that theoretically, there will be an ABBA week, since the kid was a rocker and probably wouldn't want to sing ABBA. Does anyone else agree, or do you think he was serious? Joltman 12:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Justin Timberlake - Season 1 runner up?!

If you go all the way to the bottom of the page, below "Footnotes" it lists Justin Timberlake as the runner-up in season 1 instead of Justin Guarini haha I dont know how to change it or I would. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.234.232.211 (talk) 19:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] William Hung Sales?

I've seen his album sales on other pages as 195,000, not 295,000. I honestly don't know which figure is correct, but 295,000 seems hard to believe. (222.254.189.158 12:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Las Vegas Odds Makers controversy?

In the Controversy section the last sentence currently says that some in the media have speculated that Vegas Odds Makers have exerted influence to keep the prediction sites going, but in reality it has never been legal to bet on Americon Idol or anything of the sort in Las Vegas, so this statement seems foolish. And there is no source sited for the assertion anyway.

70.18.26.95 21:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] facts

The facts on this page about the number of people who watched each season are not all accurate. I have seen different facts on other pages and web sites. Also there are some other things that seem wrong. This page needs to be checked over.\

Unless you can cite the so-called others pages and website, I don't see your claim having any merit, that and you conveniantly decided not to add your signature, I vote to revert back without the warning label.Pumapayam 19:04, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BLP concerns and tone

There are significant portions of this article that do not meet the tone of an encyclopedia and use weasel words to establish claims that are not referenced by any sourcing. I added a template to the most offensive section (Season 5) where the text includes phrasing like: some think this...and that is widely regarded. If those statements are true then sources need to be provided and the weasel words need to be replaced with something more accurate.

Secondly, I noticed a few claims about contestants and their histories within the text that are unsourced. Someone's brother was arrested? Another person was removed from the competition for XYZ? That's fine since it's all most likely true, but it needs to be sourced or it runs afoul of WP:BLP and should be removed. If I have time later today, I'll redact most of it, but this article needs closer attention to the policies. ju66l3r 17:45, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Season 6 in the UK

The article says it's broadcast on ITV2, but it's also on ITV1 because that's the channel I watch it on (I don't have ITV2)! I'm not sure if I should edit it to say it's broadcast on ITV1 and 2 because I don't know if the ITV1 and 2 broadcasts are the same.

The article also says; 'When the live shows begin next week, the version presented by Cat Deeley is expected to resemble American Idol Extra.' Well, the live shows have begun now - do the UK shows resemble American Idol Extra (I don't know what that is!) as expected?

Thanks. CC 91 16:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Victoria Beckham a Judge?

Hi, someone from the UK here. I don't know if there was any coverage that side of the pond, but there were rumours that Simon Fuller wished to replace Paula Abdul as a judge with Victoria Beckham, with Simon Cowell being against it. Now this WAS in a newspaper and might not be true, but if it is, it might be worth posting. Douglasnicol 22:33, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A new section: Awards won by American Idol Alumni

With Jennifer Hudson winning an Academy Award, others winning Grammy Awards, and others on Broadway, it would be intersting to have a section with the major awards won (and nominated) to American Idol Alumni.

[edit] Season synopsis and post AI career bios are way too long

The synopsis for each season are too obscenely long. Thats what the individual season articles are for. While we are at it, why do these synopsis follow the career of the winners post AI? The notable contestants already have their own articles - most especially the winners and runner-ups. Why is the "Controversies" section so large when AI controversies already have it's own page? This article also completely misses covering the history and development of the show which is pretty fascinating in itself. So much redundancies, so little coverage of the real relevant information on the show. --Eqdoktor 22:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American Idol Sponsorship

Is it worth mentioning that American Idol in the UK is sponsored by Chicago Town Pizza's Humdrum Idol campaign? More details at humdrumidol.com

--Digeratiuk 11:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Technically, that is a different show. Michael 21:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] International networks broadcasting American Idol

In the "International networks broadcasting American Idol" section, would it be better to put for the Latin American counties just one bullet saying 'In Latin America, the show screens on Sony Entertainment Television' instead of a bullet for each country AND a bullet saying 'In Latin America...'?

--Andrés 03:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taylor Hicks top selling alumni

I erased the first two albums from Taylor. Just because Carrie has 3 independent albums, and it didn't count in that list.

--Kellie Pickler Fanatic :D 21:52, 14 March 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by KelliePicklerFanatic (talk • contribs) 00:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

You can add Carrie's too. I see no reason not to include all albums. --24.154.173.243 23:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Restore List of American Idol contestants?

I am now having qualms about List of American Idol contestants, which I proposed to be deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of American Idol contestants. Shortly after that article was deleted, a section in Template:American Idol, called "other notable alumni", popped up. I don't know if the two events are related, but I feel they are. The problem with the section in the template is we are proposing arbitrary criteria for a successful contestant. I could argue anybody who sells records or who has a significant fan base is notable. Here we are imposing our own criteria for notability as opposed to Wikipedia's guideline for notability. A navigational template should have a sense of stability, and the constant addition and deletion of notable contestants gives a headache for those who maintain the template.

I would like to restore List of American Idol contestants, but only after a discussion here. Arguably, anybody who is selected to be shown on TV is notable. The producers like and choose to show a contestant based on how great or how poorly he or she performs. Since the show is popular and is discussed widely, the notoriety gained from even a 3-minute appearance (with name shown) is notable. There is a finite number of contestants who are shown on TV, so maintenance is not a problem. Additional notes on the contestamts (placement, record sales, notoriety, etc.) may also be added with the list, so that it is not a directory. (My own experiences with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Crew of Sesame Street is also an influence in my decision.) A category doesn't always replace a list. Restoration of the article is not a replacement for the template section, but if the list is available, personal judgments on who is notable can be directed there. So I think if List of American Idol contestants is restored, the other notable alumni section will be unnecessary and not as controversial. Tinlinkin 02:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed with the restoration, and full lists of anyone who showed up should be included, however, they should be linked to other media sites to prove their mention. As for those who even get a brief stint, many of them have official websites and news articles, and some even have fan clubs and albums out. The arbitrary criteria should be eliminated. CrazyC83 04:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Agree as per above Timclare ^(talk) _{(sign here)} 10:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

They should also be sorted in three groups: "Finalists", "Semi-finalists", "Other notables". CrazyC83 14:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The way I would bring back and edit the list is as follows: it will be as a sortable table (see Help:Sorting) with the following columns: "Name", "Season", "Final standing" (finalist, semifinalist, etc.), "Final rank", "Total album sales", and "Notes". The default sorting will be alphabetical by last name. All people who have a valid blue link that does not link to an American Idol season page will automatically be included in the list. As for people who are linked to an AI season page or have a red link, per the AfD discussion, I will respect the sentiment from that discussion and say they should not be included—unless there is an extraordinary circumstance that makes them notable. American Idol#Top-selling American Idol alumni and other relevant sections may be logical choices to merge into the list. Tinlinkin 03:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, I do not endorse the current version of List of American Idol contestants. The version that should appear when I edit the article is the one as it was from the AfD discussion, so that the original article's history is preserved. On March 26, 2007, there should be enough discussion to the point where I will ask the closing admin of the AfD debate to restore the article. That is the date when I hope to implement my changes. Tinlinkin 03:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I have to turn around and say I will withdraw my nomination to recreate the article at this time. For one, the article is protected, and I don't think I have a strong argument to recreate it, despite the above. Reviewing the lists of names in each season article, a master list looks like a redundant source of info, which is something I always try to avoid. I Also, I am planning to take a wikibreak soon, and there are other areas of Wikipedia I want to attend to. I apologize for feeling manic about this whole thing, and particularly to CrazyC83, who feels strongly for the list. Category:American Idol participants is sufficent for the purpose of the list. Tinlinkin 05:31, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] song

does anybody know the name of the song they used when the top 12 girls of S 6 were presented ?