Talk:Beat 'em up
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The "Fighting game" article was split into this and the Versus fighting game articles. The 'fighting game article is now a disambiguation page. --Mikademus 11:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
This page should be moved to Beat 'em up as the apostraphe is a replacement for "them" and it also follows the pattern of the previously existing Shoot 'em up --Larsinio 16:47, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] New Category created
Hello all! I have created a new category [[Category:Beat 'em ups]] . Use this for all non 2d/2.5d beat em ups like Die Hard Arcade --Larsinio 18:37, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Beginnings
This section needs to be merged with the following paragraph which contradictingly lists Double dragon as being more important. In the West I think this is true, as Double Dragon was much more popular than Renegade ever was. Far too much detail is given about Renegade however, and the "right punch/left punch/jump" buttons is not something that is commonly used (if ever after it). --larsinio (poke)(prod) 20:09, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
- How about "precursors" instead of "beginnings"? I think Renegade, while not a beat 'em up in its own right, was certainly a huge influence on the genre, especially because the same team who made Renegade went on to make Double Dragon next, using what they'd learned from making Renegade. Luvcraft 05:44, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Kung Fu Master
Please stop adding Kung Fu Master to this page; while it is certainly a "game where you beat people up", it is unequivocably NOT a "beat 'em up"; it lacks Z-axis movement, multiplayer, non-boss enemy HP, and weapon pick-ups. There are over 100 different games that DO have all (or almost all) of those defining features, so it's not like the genre needs to be expanded to include games with none of those features. Luvcraft 22:16, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- Wasn't it you who added the z-movement as a required aspect? I have read no sources limiting 2D-scrolling fighting games -that is, beat'em ups- to only those which affords 2.5D motion, or those with "Z-axis movement, multiplayer, non-boss enemy HP, and weapon pick-ups" for that matter. Before Double Dragon and the bunch there were other games that should be counted to the genre, and Kung-Fu Master is one of them. You progress side-ways, it scrolls, you fight with martial arts. I.e., an early beat'em up. Can we have some consensus or good sources and we wouldn't risk fights over original research? However, this can be resolved without edit/revert wars and bad feelings. We simply edit the history section where we mention some of these games and how they eventually evolved into the typical kind we tend to think of today. Mikademus 18:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- The rationale is that, since there are over a hundred games that DO have Z-axis movement, it is confusing to also include games without it. If you drop the Z-axis requirement to include Kung Fu Master, you should also include Shinobi, Rastan, Ghosts 'n' Goblins, and Super Mario Bros.. Those are all games where you scroll along a 2D plane and fight enemies. At that point you're just including ALL 2D, sidescrolling games. The Z-axis movement, again, is present in over 100 different "beat 'em up" games, which indisputably makes it a defining feature of the genre. Luvcraft 18:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
- So you are saying Kung-fu Master is a Run'n Gun game? My position is simple: I've never seen the definition you're advocating anywhere. Show me external references and all is green. Otherwise it would appear to be arbitrary and original research, and Z-movement is nothing more or less than a prominent feature of many (or even most) of the games of the genre. Mikademus 21:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
- The rationale is that, since there are over a hundred games that DO have Z-axis movement, it is confusing to also include games without it. If you drop the Z-axis requirement to include Kung Fu Master, you should also include Shinobi, Rastan, Ghosts 'n' Goblins, and Super Mario Bros.. Those are all games where you scroll along a 2D plane and fight enemies. At that point you're just including ALL 2D, sidescrolling games. The Z-axis movement, again, is present in over 100 different "beat 'em up" games, which indisputably makes it a defining feature of the genre. Luvcraft 18:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
After the debate here I have scorged the 'net for takes on and definitions of beat'em ups (using various search combinations of f.i. "genre", "beat'em up", "definition", "double dragon", etc etc) and of the few that are to be found none mentions Z-movement as a requirement for the genre. For instance, everything2.com defines "beat'em up" as "Name given to a genre of video games in which you control one or more characters and have to beat up one or more opponents, commonly using some kind of Martial Arts, or large pointy objects. Made popular mainly by Street Fighter 2", or take this german definition:
- Beat ' em UP is a computer game genre in which bodily violence, often in the form of different asian-inspired combat arts, is employment; usually unarmed, but partly also with close-range weapons. In some games characters with supernatural abilities occur (for example telekinesis, increased speed or superhuman jump capabilities). [Beat 'em up (englisch für "Schlag sie zusammen!") ist ein Computerspiel-Genre, das den Einsatz von direkter körperlicher Gewalt in Form von verschiedenen, oft asiatisch inspirierten Kampfkunst-Stilen thematisiert, meist unbewaffnet, teils auch mit Nahkampfwaffen ausgestattet. In einigen Spielen kommt es vor, dass Spielfiguren noch über übernatürliche Fähigkeiten verfügen (beispielsweise Telekinese, erhöhte Geschwindigkeit, übermenschliche Sprünge).] (From Web definition of "beat'em up")
On the other hand, there are several independent examples of sources that list Kung-fu Master among other non-Z-movement-featured side-scrolling fighting games as beat'em ups. Further, in Wikipedia we divide fighting games into versus fighters and beat'em ups, if Kung-Fu Master and other similar titles is not a Beat'em Up, what is it?! It is certainly a fighing game but equally certainly not a versus fighter. We can't invent genres, and it fits here, especially since no souces contradict this and multiple sources in fact substantiates it. I have updated the definition and inserted a paragraph in the history section to reflect this. If there is more controversy about this it should be settles by peer review and a consensus vote. Mikademus 18:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Spikeout
Who, exactly, thought it would be a good idea to have Spikeout redirect to this article?--John 00:41, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Original Research?
Is there any sources to support the name of this category? It seems to me that this whole thing should be merged into side-scroller.
[edit] Etymology
I would be interested in learning how the "beat them up" label came into play - apart from obvious reasons. I assume I'm right in thinking beat 'em up was followed by shoot 'em up and then sneak 'em up - but what originally inspired the "'em up" label for gaming genres? I realise this is quite a nonspecific point but I can't think of a better place to put the discussion than here. Yeanold Viskersenn 04:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
