Talk:Grim Fandango

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	To-do list for Grim Fandango:	edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
fill article with Inline citations with primary sources Eliminate trivia section, always gets killed in FA create gameplay section fair use rationales and sources red links prosify awards section 3 paragraph lead copyedit trim external links
Priority 4

Contents 1 cool :) 2 XP 3 Removal of "Story" Section 4 Are there any Interpretations on the title "Grim Fandango"? 5 Sprouting 6 Trivia 7 Story 8 Trivia: Grim Fandango poem 9 Sales figures 10 Smoking 11 Regarding the bit at the end of the introduction... 12 Sequel hoax 12.1 Sequels and rumors 13 Interface & read the manual, folks 14 Movie rumors

[edit] cool :)

Thanks to everyone who has recently improved this article - wow, now it looks just so damn professional :) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:28, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] XP

I've deleted the new "system requirments" section for two reasons:

• It's redundant, any info of that kind should be in the gamebox unless it is larger than two or three lines.
• It does work on XP, since the very screenshot seen on the pag was taken in this computer, who's on XP Pro with dx9. GF's uncompatibility is with higher end processors, who usually run with XP rather than 95 or 98, and is solved with a patch. ŵŞ 14:41, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I concur. DX9, athlon3000, XPpro+SP2, radeon 9800xp (overkill, huh?). Did crash without the patch, stable and smooth with it. 81.154.240.19 14:56, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ok, I agree. Guess it's enough if the information is here in the discussion. Where can I get the path? I'd like to buy and play the game :))) User:Abelson 19:11 Sept 2004 (UTC)

here, I guess ŵŞ 04:56, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of "Story" Section

The entire section "Story" was EXTREMELY expressive of a POV, and wholly unneeded as the plot is adequately addressed under other sections. Pacian 23:33, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

• While I don't agree with the complete removal, the section was indeed POV'd. I'll add it later with more focus on locations, story and characters without remarks. ^wS 12:32, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Are there any Interpretations on the title "Grim Fandango"?

I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the choice of the title of the game, i hope it can add something to the article, and also releive some personal curiosity! (7121989 21:50, 17 November 2005 (UTC))

The article explains, saying "The game's title derives from a line of a mournful poem read by one of the characters." If memory serves it is "and now we dance our grim fandango, cheek to cheek". It's by the beatnik chick in the cafe (you have to hassle her to perform, and keep doing so until she comes out with this one). I don't think there's any more to it than that. -- Finlay Mcwalter | Talk 21:56, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I found the whole poem:

With bony hands I hold my partner

On soulless feet we cross the floor

The music stops as if to answer

An empty knocking at the door

It seems his skin was sweet as mango

When last I held him to my breast

But now we dance this grim fandango

And will four years before we rest

Ain't that beautiful? How many bloody Star Wars games have stuff like that (as opposed to crap like "I don't like sand")? -- Finlay Mcwalter | Talk 22:09, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Beautiful it is, but Grim Fandango wasn't the original title. They wanted to call it something else, but Lucasarts got scared of the idea of putting 'dead' in the title. I'll add it if I find/remember the information. . . Ren 21:44, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

The original title was Deeds of the Dead, I think. And Grim Fandango is also obvious a pun on "dance of death".

[edit] Sprouting

The article mentioned marigolds, but as far as I know, other flowers are used for sprouting as well. So I changed "marigolds" to "flowers"...--Wormsie 15:51, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

That sentence in particular was discussing the resonances between Day of the Dead and Grim Fandango; marigolds (specifically) have special meaning in that festival, and I don't believe other flowers do. That sentence should, at the very least, say "marigolds and other flowers", but really are any other types of flower shown? I only remember the marigolds. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:35, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I think that when Hector sprouted Copal he said "Marigolds... Funny, for some reason I was expecting tulips". (Which, however, might be a joke I didn't get.) I also think that the flowers in Hector's greenhouse aren't just marigolds, even though all of them are supposedly from dead people. At leat that's how I understood things, but I might be completely off...--Wormsie 22:39, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

The head of Salvador was covered in red flowers, maybe roses, when he was sprouted. His body however was covered with marigolds. I guess the sproutella Hector uses contains only manigolds. - Redmess 16:14, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

I moved this bit to a trivia-section I created. Seemed more suitable there than under the Reactions -subtitle.

"A reference to Grim Fandango appears in The Curse of Monkey Island, another LucasArts adventure game. The protagonist, Guybrush Threepwood, at one point in the game encounters a corpse in a chicken shop, wearing a badge saying "Ask me about Grim Fandango." If the player chooses to pick up the badge, Guybrush will decline, saying, 'Nah. I don't want everybody asking me about Grim Fandango.'"

--Wormsie 19:05, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the trivia section to the bottom of the article, I don't know if there are general rules about it, but most articles I've read have had trivia after the "normal sections". Poulsen 22:18, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Story

Should we add a deeper summary of the story ? I think the 4 years of his life should be mentioned, an ending, etc.

Sounds good to me! Poulsen 16:18, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I will try to write one this week. - Redmess 16:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia: Grim Fandango poem

"The only time "grim fandango" is ever mentioned is in Olivia's poem, about two star-struck lovers who are lost in the world, and their search for each other is a four year trial (a "grim fandango")."

This, I think, is a wrong interpretation. The poem goes like this:

With bony hands I hold my partner
On soulless feet we cross the floor
The music stops as if to answer
An empty knocking at the door

It seems his skin was sweet as mango
When last I held him to my breast
But now we dance this grim fandango
And will four years before we rest

My interpretation: First the two people, lovers, were alive. Then they died. And it will take four years before they reach the ninth underworld and rest. Other olivia's poems are also about death, such as this one:

Alive!
We slept!
Life's just some rapid-eye-movement
In a warm, cozy bed...
Buried!
We wake!
The flesh dream is over, Daddy!
Now that we're all crazy dead!

So, I removed the interpretation. --Wormsie 10:32, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Grim Fandango reminds me of Danse Macabre, actually. Heh. --Kizor 16:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sales figures

Does anyone have any actual sales figures for this game? The article mentions many times that Grim Fandango "failed to sell well" and "didn't sell as well as earlier adventures". From what I have learned (from discussions with LucasArts employees of that time and elsewhere) is that while it wasn't a runaway success, Grim Fandango did OK on the market, especially in Europe, and exceeded the company's sales estimates. Furthermore, it probably sold more actual copies than earlier adventures (due to the growth of the games business in general), even if it fared worse proportionately. --Jopo 07:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I for one am strongly in favour of scrapping unsourced statements. Shinobu 21:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

This post at Adventure Gamers even has a source - but unfortunately archive.org won't show the page anymore. :P http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showpost.php?p=6765&postcount=12 --Wormsie 05:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey Wormsie, thanks for linking my post from AG - I forgot I even posted something like that ;) --Jopo 07:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

So we'll scrap the "failed to sell well" bit? Shinobu 10:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I finally found a quotation, so I will edit. :-)Wormsie 15:16, 9 August 2006

[edit] Smoking

"Most of the characters smoke (largely for cinematic effect)." It seems to me like the "cinematic effect" bit is: a) POV, and b) to attempt some rationalization for smoking beyond the characters simply enjoying smoking.

The design of "Grim Fandango" echoes a lot aspects from the film noir genre (femme-fatales, the main character unawareness of the sinister plot around him, etc.) In those films the characters generally smoked, because it was perceived as "cool" in those days. Additionally the developers put something about why smoking is so common in the Land of the Dead in the manual of the game:

For those who are disturbed by the amount of smoking in Grim Fandango, we offer two reasons: 1) we wanted to be true to the film noir atmosphere, and 2) everybody in the game who smokes is DEAD. Think about it." mensch • t 21:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the bit at the end of the introduction...

...(which I removed).

Here it is, in case it is of any use to someone:

Given the game's theme many critics sarcastically remarked Grim Fandango as being the final nail on the coffin of the dying adventure-game genre. However, these announcements were found premature. LucasArts would go on to release one more adventure game, Escape from Monkey Island, two years later using the GrimE engine. Also sequels to other popular adventure-games such as Gabriel Knight, Broken Sword and Longest Journey would appear in the on-coming years. While the genre had undoubtedly wained in popularity, since its heyday in the 80s and early 90s the genre has remained alive through new games and sequels produced at a fairly regular rate.

Now, my reasoning for deleting it: I like the style and all, but it's not about Grim Fandango. Maybe if someone was to write a whole article about the death of adventure games, that bit might be of use there. Also, it's strangely optimistical, in a "adventure games aren't not dead, honestly, can't you see, I saw its arm twitch just a second ago!" -way. Or something.--Wormsie 20:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I think only the last sentence needed to be deleted there, the rest is an accurate portrayal of what reviews were expressing at the time. Rufous 10:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Good point... However, the final nail on the coffin -bit is mentioned later on in article and the game's low sales are already mentioned in the first paragraph, so I don't know if it's necessary information.

Still, with the rest removed, it would sound slightly comical: "Given the game's theme many critics sarcastically remarked Grim Fandango as being the final nail on the coffin of the dying adventure-game genre. However, these announcements were found premature. LucasArts would go on to release one more adventure game, Escape from Monkey Island, two years later using the GrimE engine." As if it was sayigng, "the adventure genre didn't die after Grim Fandango, but after Escape from Monkey Island." ;-) --Wormsie 11:38, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sequel hoax

[edit] Sequels and rumors

Many fans await for a sequel to be created for Grim Fandango but no official announcements have been released. Many fans await for a sequel to be created for Grim Fandango but no official announcements have been released.

A July 2006 Gamespot blog article [1] first mentioned rumors that Tim Burton would be directing a Grim Fandango movie, but later the rumors were revealed to be a hoax, originating from the same source on several different websites and blogs. Although in Edge Magazine, September 2006 edition, this rumor was printed.

In light of WP:CRUFT, is the above text realy worth including? Shinobu 00:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't be the first time that a hoax is chronicled on Wikipedia, so yeah. -TheHande 09:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The blog article gamespot.com in turn references the Media Center blog--which predates it by 6 days. Shouldn't it be linked to the Media Center post instead if we're operating under when/where the rumor was "first mentioned"?

[edit] Interface & read the manual, folks

I added the following bit to the gameplay section: "Pressing Del (in the numerical pad) or period also switches between different objects." You can switch between different objects. People jus don't read the manual, apparently. :-P--Wormsie 10:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

In the in-game controls options it says + and - are used for switching items. People just don't read the in-game instructions either, apparently. :-P - Redmess 16:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Movie rumors

OK, before delving into edit wars...

User:James Hetfield stated that "a message board is NOT a reliable source." It is not a message board, it's a news page of The Department of Death. If The Movie Center, an obscure blog with no references, is a reliable enough source for GameSpot (and even they state that "the 'interview' was actually a collection of quotes lifted from other press outlets"), then why isn't the news page of The Department of Death a reliable enough source for us? And if it isn't reliable enough for us, why is The Movie Center reliable enough for us and why can't we just remove the whole hoax from the Wikipedia article on the basis of no reliable sources?--Wormsie 09:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I hadn't noticed that James Hetfield is Wesborland... I reverted as per WP:HOAX :P --Wormsie 09:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia has rules. Both The Movie Center and the DOD page cannot be used as a direct sources as per WP:RS. Gamespot, however, IS a reliable source, whatever source they decide to use. --~ ~ James Hetfield (previously Wesborland) ~ ~ 19:12, 17 March 2007 (UTC)