Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Portal	WikiProject Baseball is maintained by WikiProject Baseball, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of baseball and baseball-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, or contribute to the discussion
NA	This page is not an article and does not require a rating on the quality scale.
WikiProject Baseball To-do: edit  Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Baseball: The current Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball/Article improvement drive article is New York Yankees. Requests: Keith Bucktrot, Rip Radcliff, Sandwich Pick, Trey Hillman Attention: 1873 New York Mutuals, 1947 Little League World Series, Bobby Cox, China national baseball team, National Association as a major league Expand: 2007 Major League Baseball season, Kansai Big Six Baseball League, Players League Stubs: 2005 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, Batboy, Catch (baseball), Check-swing, International Baseball Federation, Korean Baseball Organization, Korean Series Images: Appeal play, Charging the mound, Corked bat, Error, Wild pitch Quality watch: 8 FA-Class Baseball articles - 6 GA-Class Baseball articles.

Skip to Table of Contents

	To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball:	edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
Restore the article about the Seattle Mariners Tag Talk pages with {{Baseball-WikiProject}} Rate articles. See Category:Unassessed Baseball articles or Baseball articles by quality. Tag stubs with {{baseball-stub}} or {{baseball-bio-stub}} Create organisational structure for categories Help peer review any articles currently up in the WikiProject's peer review department. Expand a stub Maintain Baseball Portal Add top-level information to Current sports events as it occurs. Player trades, game results, other notable events. Recruit new members by searching Special:Recentchangeslinked/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Baseball/Articles and Special:Recentchangeslinked/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Baseball/Articles/Stubs and seeing if anyone not involved with the project has made an edit of one of our designated pages. (See list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball/Participant List). Look at their talk page, and if they don't have lots of negative things (complaints about edits, vandalism, etc), edit and add {{subst:BBwelcome}} to the page. Add {{subst:WPBBwelcome}} to the talk pages of new users who join the project. Cleanup: Bobby Cox Cleanup: Ronnie Wickers

Baseball WikiProject
Information Project page talk   •Discussion archives Participants talk 2007 MLB team articles talk Articles talk Dif.  •1  •2  •3  •talk Project category talk Baseball Portal talk Departments Assessment talk   •Worklist  •Log Article Improvement Drive talk Peer review talk Tools Project banner talk Userboxes Large Userbox talk Project Userbox talk Task forces Baseball Players talk Little League talk Old-time Base Ball talk
edit · changes

This talk page is automatically archived by Werdnabot. Any sections older than 28 days are automatically archived to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 3. Sections without timestamps are not archived.

Archives
All archives
1 2 3

Contents 1 2007 Chicago White Sox season game log and 2007 Cleveland Indians season game log 1.1 Deadline 1.2 Final Proposal 1.2.1 Notice 1.2.2 Deadline's Passed 2 Harry Simmons 3 Baseball statisticians category? 4 Manager templates 5 Moe Berg FAR 6 Red Box(baseball) 7 Additional sections for MLB team season articles format 8 Rosters 9 Backlog 10 Looking to Interview Wikipedians 11 Baseball player naming conventions 12 Jim Thorpe FAR 13 Game Log

[edit] 2007 Chicago White Sox season game log and 2007 Cleveland Indians season game log

Links to previous discussion:

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/MLB team season articles format#Game Log

Please take a look at these two articles, and then look at these articles: 2007 Chicago White Sox season and 2007 Cleveland Indians season. Is this the way that everybody wants to do the game logs? And if so, do you want to leave it in this format, or do you want to change the teams so it says "Chicago" instead of "White Sox", "Los Angeles (AL)" instead of "Angels", "New York (AL)" instead of "Yankees"? Is it necessary to make a different shade to differentiate between home stands and road trips, since after the games are completed the table will be color coded to indicate wins and losses anyway, eliminating the blue color? It doesn't matter as much to me, but it would clearly be best if it is the same format for every team's article. Please leave your comments here, and we'll see what the consensus is. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs}

My opinion is that off-days should not be shown. After seeing the different between the tables with the off-days shown and ones with them not, the one with the off-days just looks like a schedule. With regard to the highlighting of colours, there is no need to highlight series like you said, as there is already a column for home and away, there does not need to be a second thing to show the same outcome, after all, they are going to be shaded either green or red for a win or loss (respectively). --Borgarde^talk 03:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the highlighting, I too agree, and will switch the ChiSox back to no shade for away game. Regarding the use of City names or Team names, I am of the opinion that team names work better due to inter-league play, and from a historical stand point since teams have and do move from city to city but retain the name. — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 04:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

How about adding the starting pitcher? The "Record" and "Division Standings" columns could be condensed down into a single column with entries like "5-0, 1st" or "3-7, 4th (tie)". —Mike 06:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Is the starting pitcher as important as the Winning and Losing pitchers, for historical records? — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 07:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment: First, let me start off by saying that I agree with not listing the off-days in the game logs. So we can eliminate those from all of those that currently have those shown as black-shaded.

Now, in these new "templates" for the game logs, we have removed the "Division Standings" column from the table, which now it seems like I don't know why I put it there in the first place. I don't think that it would be necessary to include the starting pitcher, as in most cases, the starting pitcher will either be the winning or losing pitcher, and in the table listing the pitcher as the starter and pitcher of record would be rather redundant. I think that all the information that is currently on there is sufficient and all that is necessary for the game logs.

As for the names of the teams listed in the game log, I still believe that it would be best to show them as the location as opposed to their nicknames. I don't know exactly why, but this seems to look better to me. I know that's not a good reason, but it's the only one I have right now. Okay, I think I might have one... if you look in your local newspaper, if you look at the standings they will say "Los Angeles", "Chicago", "Cleveland", not "Angels", "White Sox", or "Indians" (unless that team is the local team, in which it would be like that). On mlb.com, for the scoreboard on the mainpage, I believe it says the location, not the team name, as well. To me, it simply makes sense to list them according to their city or other geographical location as opposed to their team name. Any comments about this? Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs}

As I said above, I think it is less confusing with all of the Inter-League play for Chicago, LA, NYC. — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 07:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

In the case you need to abbreviate, the first initial of the league that the team plays in is used as the third letter in its three-letter abbreviation. Example: LAA, LAN, CHA, CHN. Read as: Los Angeles, American. Los Angeles, National, and so on.--Axion22 02:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, do we need the column 'OT'? In a season long game log is the notation of extra inning games needed? Perhaps that column would be better served by Games Behind (GB) or Winning Percentage (PCT)? — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 07:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you're right about the teams because of inter-league play, I don't really know right now. Also, we can get rid of the OT column on the game logs. I have looked at espn.com when i was doing the game log of 2006 Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim season and noticed that the website does not indicate extra-innings anyway. In hockey, it is a good idea to put the overtimes in because a team can still get a point for losing in overtime, but in baseball it's win or lose, all or nothing. So if you want to go ahead an eliminate the 'OT' column from all the articles, you may do so. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs}

Instead of using OT, how about, in the case of extra innings, we do the traditional thing, which is to put F-inning after the score for games with bonus baseball.--Axion22 02:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Although, I think we should still include the all-star game in the game log, as the outcome of the game does affect the teams as far as home-field advantage goes. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs}

How do you purpose doing that, since none of the teams will play the all star game? — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 04:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Example Log:

#	Date	Visitor	Score	Home	Win/Loss	Save	Attendance	Record	GB
79	June 30	White Sox	6-2	Cubs	Garland/Marshall		40,720	52-27	2.5
80	July 1	White Sox	8-6	Cubs	Cotts/Dempster	Jenks	41,027	53-27	1.5
81	July 2	White Sox	15-11	Cubs	Zambrano/Buehrle	Howry	40,919	53-28	2.5

Is everyone good with this? Or are there more purposed changes? — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 18:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe that we should show the GB or the other team's pitcher, but I do agree with using the team's nicknames (White Sox, Angels) instead of "Chicago" and "Los Angeles (AL)". I had a very long explanation for this, but my computer was acting weird and couldn't send it, then it all got deleted. I don't feel like typing it up again, so if you want to know what I was gonna say, you can send me a message. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs}

When you say "the other team's pitcher" do you mean the losing pitcher? Or are we talking about starting pitcher? I think the Game Winner, Game Loser, and Save, if one, are important. — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 19:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

When I said the other team's pitcher, I mean that if the White Sox won, and Neal Cotts got the win, I don't think it is absolutely necessary to list Ryan Dempster in the table. The section of the game log that you listed an example is for "[[2006 Chicago White Sox season]]". Since this is the article for the Chicago White Sox, I don't think we have to put the Cubs pitcher included. I think that if somebody wanted to know who got the decision for the Cubs, they would first go to the Cubs article rather than the White Sox article. Again, that's just speculation, and that's just what appears to me to be the case. Long story short, I just think that in the White Sox article, we should only include the White Sox pitchers, not the pitchers of their opposition. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 16:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I had not thought of it that way, but now that you have I agree. Would it be better to head the column "Pitcher of Record" rather than "Win/Loss" ? — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 19:36, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I know there is a better way of heading the column for the pitcher of record for the team who's article it is listed on, but right now I don't know what that would be. I think that there is a better way of heading that column than "pitcher of record". Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 20:12, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment - These articles need to be moved, they violate wiki policy. Subpages do not exist in main article space. The slash should be replaced with a space, i.e. 2007 Chicago White Sox season game log.--Holderca1 03:20, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Looking over this, I have a few comments, I think the color coding should be based on home/away rather than win/loss, you can put a W or an L next to the score to denote a win or loss. Then you would just need one team column titled opponent. Keep the other teams pitcher, it's nice to be able to look through and see how a team has done against a specific pitcher, and split the win/loss into two columns. Also, I think the record of the pitchers should be included, see below for what I envision --Holderca1 14:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Example Log:

#	Date	Opponent	Score	Win	Loss	Save	Attendance	Record	GB
79	June 30	Cubs	W 6-2	Garland (12-3)	Marshall (6-6)		40,720	52-27	2.5
80	July 1	Cubs	W 8-6	Cotts (3-1)	Dempster (1-4)	Jenks (19)	41,027	53-27	1.5
81	July 2	Cubs	L 15-11	Zambrano (12-4)	Buehrle (10-6)	Howry (22)	40,919	53-28	2.5

• I agree with the some of the changes you made. You are correct that it is a bit silly to use two columns for Home/Visitor rather than just Opponent. The use of background shade for home or away seems correct as well. Where I do disagree with you is the placement of the record of the pitchers, which I think belongs on the individual season article, but not in the gamelog itself. Also, I do think the use of background color to denote a win is useful. I purpose a modification. — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 00:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Example Log:

#	Date	Opponent	Score	Win	Loss	Save	Attendance	Record	GB
79	June 30	Cubs	6-2	Garland	Marshall		40,720	52-27	2.5
80	July 1	Cubs	8-6	Cotts	Dempster	Jenks	41,027	53-27	1.5
81	July 2	Cubs	15-11	Zambrano	Buehrle	Howry	40,919	53-28	2.5

Please see: WP:Baseball/game_log — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 17:53, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

You would probably still want to include the "W" or "L" as people who are color blind may not be able to pick up the color differences as easily. And someone should try to print it out on a black and white printer to see if the red and green look very different. —Mike 22:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I agree that the "W" or "L" should be kept in front of the score. Also, I think the pitcher's record should go on this page. It allows a quick reference to see how a pitcher progressed throughout the season, which I feel is closely related to the team and so belongs on the log page. I apologize if this is the wrong place, but I'm not familiar with the layout of Wiki quite yet. I'd be willing to do the Indians game log, which is currently empty on the page listing the teams. Should I add myself to it? Good work on the logs so far! Tytrain 23:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Example Log:

#	Date	Opponent	Score	Win	Loss	Save	Attendance	Record
79	June 30	Cubs	6-2	Garland	Marshall		40,720	52-27
80	July 1	Cubs	8-6	Cotts	Dempster	Jenks	41,027	53-27
81	July 2	Cubs	15-11	Zambrano	Buehrle	Howry	40,919	53-28

I still think that green and red would be best for denoting wins and losses. If we use gray and white, people might get confused as to which color is for wins and losses. It is common sense that green would be the good thing for the team (Wins) and the red would be the bad (losses).
I am really hoping that we can get this straightened out by the time the season starts, as it would be good to keep everything organized by the time we start adding stuff. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 00:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The score, I think, should still be listed with the home team's score first, even for losses - 11-15 in the example above. Tytrain 01:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

• I think there needs to be something showing whether the game is home or away, perhaps @Cubs for away games and just Cubs for home games. I also think that the W/L should be included with the score, but I do not agree with Tytrain above. I like the style that makes the entire row either red or green. Lastly, I suggest that another box be added at the end with a link to a full box score for that game. Should stay consistent and use the same website for every game, preferably the teams own website.Timpcrk87 06:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Example Log:

#	Date	Opponent	Score	Win	Loss	Save	Attendance	Record
79	June 30	Cubs	6-2	Garland	Marshall		40,720	52-27
80	July 1	Cubs	8-6	Cotts	Dempster	Jenks	41,027	53-27
81	July 2	Cubs	15-11	Zambrano	Buehrle	Howry	40,919	53-28

As you can see by the edits from my last example log, I think we should put the pitcher (Win, Loss, Save) in Bold letters for easier reading. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 17:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deadline

I would like to impose a March 28 deadline on deciding how to do these. March 28 is four days before the season starts, so I would like to get this part straightened out by then if possible. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 01:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that a indication of home/away is need. And to clarify, I am in favor of the colored boxes, and in favor of always listing the article team's score first, win or lose. Tytrain 00:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

If you use coloured boxes, having the teams score first is unneccessery. --Borgarde^talk 00:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. That's true. Thanks for pointing that out. I then personally go for colored boxes. Now, I actually think green and red are a bit too loud. What about white/dark grey instead, as shown above? And I'd like to add another plug for listing the pitchers' records. Tytrain 00:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball/game log for the example that I have posted for April of the Minnesota Twins 2006 season. If you've noticed that it looks a lot different, that is because the previous example listed there did not show wins/losses, and red/green was how I knew how to do them from working on the 2006-07 NHL season articles. In my example, the "@" symbol is used to indicate road games, and no "@" is a home game. Second, I don't think it's necessary to have the home team's score listed first and have the boxes shaded to indicate wins and losses. It's redundant information to list it twice with two different formats. I personally like the red and green because they are very different colors, not to mention they are complimentary colors and go well together because of that.Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 01:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The example you linked me to looks fine. I would say that's what we go with with one modification: the addition of pitcher's records. Tytrain 02:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Why do you feel that it's necessary to include the pitcher's records in these game logs? Personally, I don't feel like they are needed. I can't explain why, but it just doesn't seem like it's gonna do any use to list those there. Please state your rationale behind wanting to include the pitcher's record in the game logs. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 02:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It does show progressively shows a w-l record during the season. Kingjeff 03:08, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I want to show win loss records because it shows progress through the season. Starters who are on the team the entire year will accumulate large win/loss totals, and this will make them jump out from the September call-ups/bullpen pitchers. It will also make it obvious when the team encounters a team that had a great year (losing to a 15-3 pitcher, for example) or when the team beat a weaker team (winning against a 1-9 pitcher, for example). I understand that this info is not crucial, but I feel it is appropraite for a game log, whose overall ideal is to show a season at a glance. I think win/loss records will add quite a bit to that. Tytrain 14:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Final Proposal

Okay, it's been a while since we've really had anybody comment about how to go about doing the game logs. I think we can safely say that we have the format taken care of (Date / Opponent / Score / Win / Loss / Save / Attendance / Record) and that those are the headings that we are going to include in our game log table. That said, I think we only have two items of discussion still ongoing.

1) What colors should we use to indicate a win or loss: Green/Red or DarkGray/White?

2) Should we include the pitchers records next to their names in the game log: Yes or No?

Please state your opinion and hopefully we can get a consensus. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 16:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

1. Green and red. 2. Show records. Tytrain 20:58, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

To be consistent with season articles for other sports, I suggest using similar red/green (the lighter #ffdddd and #ddffdd) and displaying "W" or "L" before the score, especially if the team's score isn't always first. You might also want to consider using a set of templates like {{CFB Schedule Start}}, {{CFB Schedule Entry}}, and {{CFB Schedule End}}. —Mike 04:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notice

If nobody proposes any more ideas for this or states their opinion about the game logs, then we'll just have to go with whatever we have, which right now is Red/Green and pitcher's records. During the season, we might be able to have another discussion about this and make the necessary changes, but we will only be able to take stuff out, not put stuff in. Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 18:42, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deadline's Passed

Alright, our deadline has come and passed. So, here is our final proposal. Again, during the season we may remove some stuff from the game logs that we already have, but we may not add any information already included. Here is our final proposal; this is what all of our game logs are gonna be modeled off of.

#	Date	Opponent	Score	Win	Loss	Save	Attendance	Record
79	June 30	Cubs	6 - 2	Garland (12-3)	Marshall (6-6)		40,720	52-27
80	July 1	Cubs	8 - 6	Cotts (3-1)	Dempster (1-4)	Jenks (19)	41,027	53-27
81	July 2	Cubs	15 - 11	Zambrano (12-4)	Buehrle (10-6)	Howry (22)	40,919	53-28

Ksy92003 ^{talk·contribs} 23:50, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Harry Simmons

I came across the article of Harry Simmons today. It really needs to be cleaned up. I don't know anything about this guy, but if anyone can cite sources or do anything to clean it up it would be appreciated. It doesn't read very well at all right now. --Borgarde^talk 00:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I did some wikification and prose cleanup. The writing's not great now, but it's passable. Still no sources, of course.--Djrobgordon 01:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It looked like when they typed up the article, they hit return a lot, so I just undid that. I also eliminated one redundant sentence about staying in Montreal as well. DandyDan2007 07:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for cleaning up this article about my Dad. I will try to add some references from the New York Times and some magazines which had published articles about Harry Simmons. I eventually plan to submit his name for nomination to the Composite Ballot for the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. Any suggestions would be welcome. My e-mail address is davezxc@yahoo.com. Davezxc 12:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baseball statisticians category?

This is something of a followup to my previous question about David Smith. Looking at Category:Baseball statistics, you got a number of statisticians or analysts. I suppose you could say sabermetricians. A good number of them are employees of Baseball Prospectus. It seems to me that should be a separate category. If you agree, what's the best name for the category? DandyDan2007 08:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Manager templates

Most of the college football teams have a template at the bottom of their page with a link to each of the coaches' entries. Could we do that with baseball teams and managers? Tomdaddy53 21:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moe Berg FAR

Moe Berg has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Can someone please help resolve the remaining citation tag on Moe Berg? See the comments on the FAR link (above). Thanks, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Red Box(baseball)

Can someone at WikiProject Baseball please check on the term, to be it seems to be a work of fiction, but someone in the know might be able to shed a little light on the matter. If it is fiction, then it's a quite likely nomination for a speedy delete I think.

[edit] Additional sections for MLB team season articles format

I proposed adding some additional optional sections to the season articles format page. You can find the discussion here: /MLB team season articles format#Additional sections. Comments are welcome. —Mike 22:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rosters

Hey everybody... be sure that your team's roster is updated prior to Opening Day. Some of the teams have not finalized their rosters; make sure that your team's roster matches the roster on the team site prior to Opening Day. I've already updated several of the rosters. All of the teams should be finalizing their rosters this weekend. Tomdaddy53 19:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

And while you are at it, please take a second to double check that links are going to the right page. Non-baseball folks will be quite confused to click on Milton Bradley and end up on a page about games. Thanks!--Kathy A. 20:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Backlog

I was thinking it may be useful to create a template that can be put on a gamelog if it falls behind on being updated. Then all the gamelogs needing updated will be in one category and easy for someone to take care of before it falls 10+ games behind. ---CWY2190^TC 20:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Looking to Interview Wikipedians

If this message is unwelcome, please delete.

I am a researcher seeking to interview Wikipedia contributors, especially occasional, new, or “average” editors. In-depth, one hour interviews are conducted over either phone or email. Compensation for your time will be provided – a $10 gift certificate to Amazon.com. Must be 18+ and U.S. resident. Contact Benjamin Johnson, Department of Telecommunication, Information Studies and Media, Michigan State University, by email at john2429@msu.edu or by phone at 517.230.1272.

John2429 16:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baseball player naming conventions

I have put up an RFC here to decide how best to disambiguate baseball players (ie. using "(baseball)" or "(baseball player)". Your input is appreciated. Caknuck 20:20, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jim Thorpe FAR

Jim Thorpe has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Miskwito 04:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Game Log

Why are we having redundancy? Should we not use internal links only once per series? Kingjeff 01:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)