Talk:Command & Conquer

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" also, non-canon and unencyclopedic "

This claim (taken from the page its history section) is factually incorrect, as the storyline presented on PlanetCnC is indeed canon and represents a completely accurate and in-depth description of the events that transpire within the game its actual storyline. The former article's story section was indeed a direct copy & paste from the PlanetCnc website however, which thus may present copyright violations. GoodLuckDie 07:34, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't contradict the official storyline, but the PlanetCNC encyclopedia definitely adds details that weren't present in the games. Even though most of it is just background flavour, it's still fan speculation that isn't confirmed by Westwood or by the games themselves. Ironfrost 04:47, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

These details that you refer to can be considered as either more-than-logical conclusions, or simply as very well-funded deductions given the context of the games' storylines themselves. Contrary to what you appear to assume they were not exactly conjured up out of thin air, which is amplified by the fact they not only in no way take the storyline in a direction of which can be argued that it was unintented by the original authors, but also by the fact that they do not add any fanfiction-like elements to the storyline which can be readily disproven nor reasonably questioned whenever looking at the games' storylines. Feel free to provide some actual examples of what you mean should you not agree however, as you have made me quite curious, actually. But as it is, there was insufficient ground to describe the text as being 'unencyclopedic' let alone as 'non-canon', as is evidenced by the fact that many of these details have already been incorporated into the content of the various Command & Conquer pages here on Wikipedia, and this without any disputes regarding the articles their factual accuracy or neutrality ever having arisen because of them. GoodLuckDie 08:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

• "Unencyclopedic" in this context most likely refers to the copy-past of the information from planet cnc’s website. That move occasioned a revert for two reasons: first (and most importantly) we have no standing to use written copywrited material verbatum. That information must be reworded, and when nessicary altered to conform to a nuetral point of view. Admittedly, this does at times short change people by omitting pertinent information, however that is the policy of this website. Even if the exmples given are more than logical conclusions or very well funded deductions we would still have to provide a source for that information or insert a note that states that some of the information on the page is speculative. Secondly, most of the information added fits nicely into either the Global Defence Initiative storyline or the Brotherhood of Nod storyline, and as such should be incorprated on those pages. TomStar81 10:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Funpark missions 2 Funpark missions, part 2 3 Some concerns 4 Red Alert connection 5 Small Public Service Annoucement 6 Re: "in need of expert" tag 7 How do you get the bonus missions 8 Win95 version without CovertOps? 9 Mobius thing 10 Grain Trade Center? 11 Picture 12 Tiberian Dawn

[edit] Funpark missions

I'm not too sure if The Covert Operations is necessary for playing the funpark missions... I'll check it out someday to be sure. Also, shouldn't there be any info on how to access the missions? (-funpark as argument to the .exe) --ReCover 14:57, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I've tested it now and I'm certain that the funpark missions do not require The Covert Operations. Haven't edited the page though. --ReCover 15:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I could well be wrong (it's a long time since I played them) but I was under the impression you could play the dino missions with any disc (not just the Covert Ops one) as long as the Covert Operations was installed. Could you confirm that you tested this on a C&C install that hasn't had the expansion pack installed, rather than just using the Nod or GDI disc? Ironfrost 11:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. And yes, the funpark missions are playable with any disc. And the fact that all the videos for Funpark are located in both the Nod and GDI movies.mix files (just made sure) confirms it.

Right, here's the complete explanation: The Covert Operations installation contains an update of the dinosaur missions. This update isn't really vital to play them, but it contains the missions' text briefings, which aren't in the original C&C. In the original DOS version of C&C, the update was needed because only (DOS) C&C versions starting from 1.20 ( = The Covert Operations) know the "Funpark" command line parameter needed to run the dino missions. However, this was later also made unnecessary when Westwood released the 1.22 patch.

To avoid confusion, (English) DOS C&C v1.22 is the same as (English) C&C95 v1.04, and C&C95 never got any patches to update it further, except for the small WinXP dll fix. But that didn't affect the version number.

So basically, yes, it's possible to play the dinosaur missions without the Covert Ops, but you won't get text briefings that way. --Nyerguds 17:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

If you don't have covert operations, but download and install the covert operations demo you can play the missions too.

The demo only contains 2 missions, and not a trace of anything dinosaur-related. Also, that demo isn't online anymore though, except on cncworld.org's mirror of the old Westwood site. They never put it on their FTP. Nyerguds 17:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Funpark missions, part 2

The article says "reports of strange creatures", and while Kane actually says "reports of odd animal behavior". I know it sounds stupid, but that really what he says. I'm uncertain to edit because it sounds so... stupid =). --ReCover 15:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the best compromise is just to remove the quotes around it... make it

These sequential missions are accompanied by a briefing from Kane, in which he charges the player to investigate reports of strange creatures.

--Nyerguds 10:25, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some concerns

The name "tiberian dawn" is wrong. It was invented by some fan. This game is called "Command & Conquer", full stop. The article should be renamed. (the article currently called "command & Conquer" should be renamed something like "the Command & Conquer series" or "command & conquer games". I played the game right when it was released 10 years ago, and I have never heard it called "Tiberian dawn" by anyone until today. I don't know who invented that name, but don't think that fictive name should be used here on Wikipedia.

Also, it is wrong to define this game "a prequel to Tiberian Sun". When it was released in 1995, Command & Conquer wasn't a prequel to anything. The person who wrote the article probably played the games in the wrong order and doesn't understand what this game was back in 1995. If anything, Command & Conquer is the sequel to "Dune II" because its gameplay and interface are based on Dune II. The reason why the game is called "Command & Conquer" "full stop" is that it wasn't designed to be a prequel to anything. Command & Conquer is a standalone game, its setting and scenario are consistent on their own, they don't require the other games of the series.

I remember playing C&C that long ago, there was a teaser trailer included on the C&C 1 CD to a sequel called Tiberian Sun. This sequel would not be a pure RTS, but appeared to be a mix between a RTS and a first person shooter. The player would conduct missions seen through the eyes of a soldier. Your claims that there were no sequels planned are false. Tiberian Sun was already planned before the release of C&C 1, although the concept was still being worked on. If you don't believe me, dust up the old C&C CDs and watch the teaser trailer yourself.

--81.246.189.148 00:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The information about "Command & Conquer 3" seems to be completely fictive too.

The scenario of Command & Conquer doesn't mention the events of Red Alert in any way. Although the following episodes expose some links, these links are completely absent in the original Command & Conquer game, therefore they shouldn't appear on the page about Command & Conquer. Apparently, the person who wrote this article thinks of Command & Conquer as just an episode of the C&C series, and keeps describing it that way. All these considerations should appear in the page about the series, not in the page about the game itself. The "Command & Conquer" game is a standalone game, and its scenario wasn't requesting for a sequel. It's only the commercial success of the game that called for sequels. The page about the original "Command & Conquer" game shoud describe the game itself, as it stands, not the conclusions that come from the rest of the series or the inventions of fans. The scenario of Command & Conquer starts with the appearance of Tiberium "in a near future" (the game was released in 1995). There is more than enough material to write about the game itself. Connections with the rest of the series can appear on the page about the series. —This unsigned comment was added by 217.18.21.2 (talk • contribs) 12:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC).

I wrote the page, and I am well aware that the name "Tiberian Dawn" is incorrect, to be frank I am suprised that I have not been called for this by the administaters on this site. When this page was created an article titled "Command & Conquer" already existed, and I did not have the time to run the article through the move requests vote as several C&C related pages were up for deletion. What I did was to create a "fix", something suitable for the moment that would work, and I fully intend to correct this mistake. You are also right in you assertion that when this game was released in 1995 the game was not a prequel to Tiberian Sun, but after Tiberian Sun was released this game became the first in the Tiberian series. I am also aware that C&C 3 is, at this point, largely a myth, but the fact that concept art has been leaked and that it has been hinted at suggest that the game is (or was) considered for production. This is encyclopedia worthy, so the game has its own article; however the development tag on that article explicitly warns people that the information contained on the page is of a speculative nature. Lastly, while Command & Conquer does not mention Red Alert in any way, but there are scenes and lines in Red Alert that can credably support the theory that both games take place on the same timeline. It could be said that C&C is part of a Stand Alone Complex: each game is designed to be independent of one another, but they funtion as a group.

When reading this it is important to remeber two things: first, these pages are still being reengineered to better fit this new page and templete layout, therefore the page and its contents as they are now may be altered to reflect this change. Secondly, this is a wiki, which means that you have the power to change the material on the page. TomStar81 19:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

• actualy Westwood themselves have called it Tiberian Dawn.

While I agree with the the topic creator's intent, Westwood has referred to the original Command & Conquer as Tiberian Dawn as far back as early 1997 with the release of Command & Conquer Gold. In the C&C Gold Frequently Asked Questions file, Westwood states "Tiberian Sun is an entirely new game, not a data disk for C&C: Tiberian Dawn" [1] and "...RED ALERT is...[a] PREQUEL to COMMAND & CONQUER: TIBERIAN DAWN" [2]. Whelkman 17:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Westwood can refer to it however they like - none of the boxes or copyrights have ever said 'Tiberian Dawn.' They're what matters. Lots of games/movies/anythings have internal names; that doesn't make them the official name.--Gwilym 18:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Like I said, I agree with the topic creator's intent, but his testimony leads one to believe the title "Tiberian Dawn" has no standing whatsoever within Westwood, which is categorically false. I am by no means advocating revisionism, but the charges of "[Tiberian Dawn] was invented by some fan" is ignorantly speculative. As has been shown, Westwood has used the term since, at least, 1997. I don't advocate renaming "Star Wars" to "Episode IV: A New Hope", but it's wrong to suggest George Lucas at no point intended it to be called as such. Whelkman 19:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I've recently added a link to a 1995 Usenet posting which reposted the official C&C FAQ, showing that Westwood was using the Tiberian Dawn subtitle in 1995 or even earlier. This was before C&C Gold came out (or even the expansion pack game out) and thus refers to the DOS version. It is therefore not a fan title but a title used by the game's creators. -- Jordi·✆ 22:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Alert connection

I've removed the section at the beginning of the 'story' section stating that C&C follows on from an allied victory in Red Alert. There's nothing in C&C to imply this, and as far as I can tell it's not stated in Tiberian Sun or Red Alert either. Even if it's not just fan speculation, the best it can be is a retcon, and if so it should be made clear that this is the case (preferably clarifying where the information comes from). Ironfrost 12:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I am inclined to agree with this. However, I'm certainly not convinced that any mention of the connection between Red Alert and the Tiberium games should be removed from the article entirely, for three specific reasons; 1) Kane's appearances in the cutscenes of Red Alert's Soviet scenario, 2) The fact that the Brotherhood of Nod is specifically mentioned in the ending cutscene of Red Alert's Soviet scenario and 3) The Westwood-made multiplayer map in Red Alert's multiplayer mode titled 'Things To Come', which essentially was Nod's emblem in multiplayer map form when viewed from the radar dome's mini-map. All these things from Westwood themselves hint strongly that Red Alert indeed is the prequel to the original Command & Conquer, although it remains debatable precisely in what kind of capacity, storywise.

As such, I'd advocate for a seperate section on the article's main page to be added which is dedicated specifically toward this enigmatic but nonetheless substantiated connection, which exists between Red Alert's storyline and that of the Tiberium Series. 80.201.169.202 06:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Small Public Service Annoucement

It turns out I still have the original Command & Conquer manual from when the game was originally released back in 1995. If any of you writers/editors want to verify certain things based on the information contained in the manual, feel free to ask me on these pages and I will be glad to look it up for you. 80.201.169.202 08:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I have the original Red Alert booklet, in dutch version though. Wouter Lievens 11:43, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I have the original booklet on Tiberian Sun, in either English or Dutch, bit I can translate if necesary. - Redmess 15:11, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have multiple copies of it, I can check it like 5 times ^^ . Just kidding, but I do have copies of the manual of pretty much every release there has been, including the first and last (The First Decade), both DOS and C&C95 editions. --Rygir 00:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: "in need of expert" tag

Is there any real reason for it to be there? I cleaned up the article a bit and, while I wouldn't consider myself an "expert" on the C&C games, I can't see that there is an awful lot more to do. Colm O'Brien 18:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I added that back when the article was first recreated because I was not quite sure if I had gotten the information in the article corect. I figured it would be a good idea to tag the article with the expert template so as to get someone a bit more familar with this game to check it out. Infering from your comments my facts are in fact correct, and as you said there isn’t really all that much left to do. TomStar81 19:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

All right. Tag removed. Colm O'Brien 12:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How do you get the bonus missions

I think the title asked all.

Ok, to play the bonus missions you must create a shortcut to the c&c executable, then go to properties for the shortcut, apply "-funpark" as an argument to the c&c executable. It could look like this "...\Command & Conquer\c&c95.exe -funpark" (don't forget the space between the c&c executable and "-funpark").

We probably should write how to do it on the article page... (please sign your entries on talk pages) --ReCover 17:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

• I agree it should bee on the article page Jamhaw 16:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)jamhaw

Ok, I added some info, feel free to make it sound smoother... --ReCover 16:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I just added the info, I don't think it should be shortened beause not everyone knows how to insert a parameter. - Redmess 15:17, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I just added a link to the Wikipedia article on command line parameters. That should be sufficient. --Nyerguds 11:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Please note that WP is NOT intended to describe game-guide content, and the method for gaining access to the bonus missions is included for completeness' sake, and nothing else. I have reverted the article to the last revision before the addition of the game-guide content. Please do not re-revert. -FrostyBytes 15:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Win95 version without CovertOps?

Was there a Windows '95 release of CnC Gold which did not include the Covert Ops expansion disk? A recent edit added The expansion pack also features the DOS version's soundtrack, which includes music that was strangely absent from the Windows 95 version. which does not make sense to me: the only releases for Win95 I know of are CnC Gold and the later re-releases of this in the compilations, which in all cases came with the CovOps disk included. -- Jordi·✆ 09:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The version of C&C95 I have definitly doesn't have the expansion pack. Also, it's kind of funny how all the new releases are really just the same CDs, it's a C&C95 with the original DOS covert operations, meaning the installer isn't under windows. A good thing to be honest, the original installer was kickass. Also, I've never seen anything called "C&C Gold"? Where does this name come from? Can I see a scan or something that shows a box that says gold? --Rygir 00:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Look in the C&C95 readme.txt file. It is officially called "Command & Conquer Gold". Not to mention, that's the actual name of the game directory on the old Westwood FTP site. The readme file README.WRI on the CD calls it "C&C Gold" as well. In the index, it lists section 1.1 as "Installing Covert Ops over Command & Conquer 95". However, when you scroll down to said section, it says "Installing Covert Ops over Command & Conquer Gold". So basically, the WW people use both names.

--Nyerguds 15:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mobius thing

There is a Mobius movie that is not scene because of a typo or something it shouild be mentioned not to mention how to get it.

It should be mentioned not to mention...? As a matter of fact, there are 2 movies that don't run because the names in the map .ini files (which are embedded inside the MIX files) are spelt incorrectly. It is neither a hack nor is it illegal...so what are you trying to say? --Rygir 00:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grain Trade Center?

I assumed it was 'Grand,' just pronounced kind of weirdly.--Gwilym 02:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

It is indeed "Grain", as far as I can tell. --Nyerguds 10:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Shouldn't there be at least one picture? --Foolzter

Isn't there? Or doesn't the box shot count? Personally I think a screenshot of the DOS version and one of the C&C95 version would be a good idea.--Rygir 01:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tiberian Dawn

Considering it was never used for any kind of publicity materials I figured it had no busines in the infobox. However, I'm wondering now if it shouldn't be mentioned that originally the story was planned as a trilogy (which EA didn't like because that would mean C&C3 would be the end and killing of such a cash cow would likely make the financial department break out in tears). Hence, a second proposal was made and shot down (but I don't know what that story entailed), and finally the C&C3 version of events was made. It's obvious that the sun-related words are a metaphor for the rise and fall of the Tiberium "infestation" (the nature of which wasn't revealed with any certainty up until C&C3 came along, and I don't know if that will reveal anything than the obvious aliens; it's very possible Kane isn't siding with the aliens for example, but rather wants to use Tiberium against them to defend mankind). Err, sorry, didn't want to go off-topic. The relevant bit is that originally the series was envisioned as a trilogy, Tiberian Dawn, Tiberian Sun and Tiberian Twilight. The problem is, I don't know of anything that I can put up as a reference...--Rygir 01:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Nonetheless, Rygir, the name Tiberian Dawn IS mentioned in the official FAQ version 2.7, which is included on the Covert Ops CD as "readme.txt". IMO this counts as "one of the original game's related materials, such as the manual or the readme files."

Not to mention, the latest versions of these readme files (3.0 for DOS C&C, 1.3 for C&C95) are still online on ftp://ftp.westwood.com. Rygir, feel free to consult it.

Nyerguds 15:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)