User talk:NicholasTurnbull

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NicholasTurnbull's Talk Page

If you post a message to me here: I will copy both your text and my reply to your talk page when I respond.

If I post a message to you: please reply here copying my original text, so that my "new messages" indicator lights up and I can know which message you were replying in reference to.

Please don't remove, or otherwise edit, other people's posts on this page like certain users have as it is somewhat discourteous, and prevents messages being archived intact.

Thank you :-)

Archives: One Two Three Four Five Six

[edit] Article evaluation?

Hi. I noticed you haven't been editing for the past few days, and perhaps this isn't the topic anyone would like to deal with right after a wikibreak, but I was wondering if you'd care to check Bogdanov Affair. I have been trying to improve this article over the past couple months in my odd snatches of free time, and I think it is currently a useful and informative piece of expository writing. (A dreary rain of sockpuppet edits has continued to drizzle upon it, alas, leading to episodes of semi-protection and an awful lot of blocks.) Zippedmartin mentioned a few issues on the Talk page, which I tried to address; at the moment, I can't think of any other things to do with the article, and I'd like any additional opinions you have to offer.

Like the saying says, "Criticism is the only known antidote to error." Your comments are welcome. Best wishes to you and yours. Anville 17:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Are you Mark Kramer?

Hello there Kramer: I just happened to stumble across your username whilst looking through an article's edit history, and wondered: are you Kramer as in Mark Kramer, of Shimmy-Disc and JREF Paranormal Challenge fame? If so, I just wanted to say what an honour it is to meet you here, because I have long admired your work that you did as the JREF Challenge Facilitator in demonstrating the right way of using scientific method to combat the delusional; your exchanges with applicants are greatly educational, I think, to anyone interested in the field of paranormal investigation. Your masterful approach to handling such outlandish claims - despite applicants frequently dropping out due to your success in devising a watertight protocol - was a lesson to us all on how to deal with the irrational superstitions that proliferate in society, and thus I count you amongst my scientific heroes. You've actually, I note, been here longer than, since May '04; and so, I look forward to seeing you edit here more often, as I feel your expertise would be of great value to the paranormal-related articles here. Yours, --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 04:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear Nicholas, Sadly, I am not the Kramer to whom you refer. Kramer is a nick-name that I acquired as a kid and which I have adopted for Wikipedia. Nonetheless I appreciate your encouragement and your contributions. Best, --Kramer 05:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Board of Trustees elections

Hello! This is just a friendly reminder that responses to the "interview" questions for the Wikipedia Signpost are due soon. The important message and questions were left on your meta talk page. If you have not already done so, please kindly take a look at them, and we would appreciate your reply as soon as possible. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Flcelloguy (A note?) 02:00, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

i am voting for u —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Peterone (talk • contribs).

Hello again, Nicholas: just a reminder that I need your reply as soon as possible; we're about to publish and would love to have your response before publication. Thanks again. Flcelloguy (A note?) 21:35, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elvis an Onefortyone

Though banned from biography articles per Arbcom, Onefortyone still appears to be editing in celebrity (mostly Elvis-related) articles [1] [2] posting unreferenced POV stuff about him. (for example: "the work hints at a darker side of the Elvis mystique and questions the spiritual nature of his reign."). Perhaps we should ask arbcom to extend the ban to all edits about celebrities (in albums too) instead of just specific biography entries? - Mgm|^(talk) 20:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll post a request for clarification. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

It is very interesting that another user, who didn't contribute to Presley-related topics in the past, now continues to remove my contributions from Wikipedia articles and even placed a note on the Request for Arbitration page. This supports my suspicion that there are several sockpuppets at work. As for the allegedly "unreferenced POV stuff about him", I have quoted from George Plasketes, Images of Elvis Presley in American Culture, 1977-1997: The Mystery Terrain, p.37. Onefortyone 00:31, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Foundation

Hey, what happened to your Foundation candidacy (candidatcy?)? I thought you were standing, but you don't seem to be on the list of candidates for which to vote. Have you withdrawn? If so, I think it's a real shame, because I think you'd have made a great Board member. --David Mestel^(Talk) 22:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] scientology publicity

Hello

can you please review the Chick Corea wiki entry, there appears to be blatant use of this profile to publicise scientology. The page now has a direct link to the German scientology website as well as a scientology video. I find this objectionable.

Please take a look.

Thanks

damian.

[edit] User Lochdale

User:Lochdale has again removed well-sourced paragraphs I have written from the Elvis Presley page. This is not acceptable. See [3], [4], [5], [6], etc. Lochdale's behavior supports my suspicion that this user identity has primarily been created to remove my contributions and to harass me. See also his contribution history from the beginning. Onefortyone 01:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Onefortyone: I am sorry to have to be this blunt with you, but the particular diffs you cite above are not really an infraction on Lochdale's part; the material was as such that any editor would be within their rights to remove it in the interests of article quality. It may have been "well sourced" but it made improper attribution of generalities (e.g. "most people" suggesting a widespread view of multiple sources, in reference to one author's opinion of Presley's sex life).

It is also questionable of what merit the addition of such material in the articles in question is, especially since the various quotations do not appear to assert fact, rather offer analysis and opinion - remember Wikipedia is meant to be an encyclopaedia, and thus should generally stick to the factual elements of a given subject. That should not, of course, be taken to completely abrogate the idea of including multiple POVs referenced to sources in order to work towards NPOV; but in general Wikipedia aims towards what is, by and large, accepted by the mainstream when dealing with autobiography.

After all, Wikipedia is neither an advertising mechanism nor an exposé. You keep posting talk page messages to me asserting malefaction on Lochdale's part; it is undeniably true that there is a clear tit-for-tat going on between the two of you, but I have stated before that you both need to stand clear of the dispute. If you continue to tenaciously follow each other's every move, and attempt to reverse each other's editing attempts on the subject, that is precisely all you will achieve; an argument, ad infinitum. In this particular case, indeed, Lochdale is not actually incorrect to remove the material, and so it would strike me in this case that the best course of action would simply be to restrict yourself to editing material that you do not possess a desire to promote a given POV within.

I do hope you understand that in saying this, I have interest in both reducing conflict within Wikipedia and to resolving the long-running dispute that yourself and Lochdale have been engaged in for far too long. I have reiterated such sentiments repeatedly, and frankly I think this is the last time I will try and make this point to you. In future any accusations relating to Lochdale's actions would be best posted on AN/I than written to me, because I have already offered you my advice on that subject. Should this continue, however, it may be the case it is necessary to have greater restraint via Arbcom placed on one or both of you to bring this rather irritating mess of an issue to a permanent close, as I am tired of it. That said, if at all possible, I would like to avoid the use of authority-controlled action as I consider you are intelligent enough to appreciate the need for you to change your behaviour and would consider it fairer all round if such a course of action was not necessary. Best regards, --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 10:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

That was phrased with admirable care but perhaps the content is unnecessarily reserved. The "greater restraint", or potential for it, is already available. I think it's time for this to be invoked. I refrain from doing this myself as you earlier seemed to regard me as a participant in the dispute. (Whether I was a participant or merely a baby-sitter/mopper-up, the page histories will show I haven't been one for quite some time; and for what it's worth I can assure you that I am thoroughly sick of the Presley article and would be happy never to see it again.) -- Hoary 12:08, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Since this has already been through the Wikipedia dispute resolution process, the community has already examined this issue thoroughly, and I don't see the need to be overly concerned about who is a party to the dispute. Arbitration Committee decisions tend to specify whether or not the administrator taking action needs to be uninvolved or not, as I recall. Regardless, I am wondering if Nicholas is looking into this further or has any ideas about resolving this chronic problem. Jkelly 17:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that Lochdale simply claims that my edits are questionable, but this is not true. He also claims that most books do not support my contributions, but he is wrong, as facts show. You should have noticed that, as a kind of compromise, I didn't mention sources such as the controversial manuscript book by Elvis's stepmother Dee Presley in my last contributions, primarily centering on what is written in reputable Elvis biographies. But this material has also been deleted. It seems as if Lochdale did not read any of the major Elvis biographies. I have not yet seen that this user has given direct quotes from one of the sources he claims to have read. He frequently misquoted Guralnick's name as "Guralnik" in the past (see, for instance, this discussion), and he didn't even know the exact title of Guralnick's book Careless Love: The Unmaking Of Elvis Presley, as he cited it as "Careless Whisper". See [7]. He also disparages university studies I have used for my edits. He says, "I would disagree with that the information presented is really worth mentioning as a lot of it seems to be from college disertations etc...." See [8]. This statement speaks volumes. Lochdale's only aim seems to be to delete my contributions. Just one question. Is there a reasonable argument for excluding the whole paragraph on Elvis's male friendships from the article? See [9]. These friendships with members and employees from the Memphis Mafia are well documented and part of every Elvis biography and they are certainly accepted by the mainstream, as all these people played a significant part in the singer's life. Why should this paragraph be totally removed from the article? On the other hand, look at the unsourced "Trivia" sections of the article, for instance [10], and sections such as Elvis Presley in the 21st century or Elvis Lives?. These sections are fan stuff in no small degree, as they are always singing the praise of the megastar. Is all this material encyclopaedic? I don't think so, but some user's, among them Lochdale, do frequently support these sections by their contributions (see [11], [12]). Though I am not of the opinion that all this material should be included in the article, I never removed these paragraphs, as Lochdale frequently does with my contributions. In my opinion, Lochdale is part of an Elvis fan group which endeavors to suppress specific details about the singer's life from the article, if he is not somehow related to multiple hardbanned User:Ted Wilkes (we have already discussed my suspicion here and elsewhere). And what about the well documented FBI files I have cited and the false claims by Lochdale concerning these files? See [13]. It seems as if I am the only user who frequently, and accurately, cites his sources, and Lochdale is frequently deleting the passages I have written. These are the facts, and Lochdale's deleting tactics are not acceptable. Onefortyone 13:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Onefortyone: I can understand your response to the foregoing looking at it from your perspective, but it still strikes me you have rather missed the point. Let me be even blunter:

— Just because something is sourced does not mean that it belongs in the article especially when those sources are the only provenance of a given claim.

— Wikipedia is not the place for revelations about Elvis Presley's sex life. Wikipedia is not interested in obscure and rather tenuous factoids or inferences about a dead rock star's sexual relations.

— This fruitless dispute is wasting both your time and that of other Wikipedia users. It thus detracts from what we're actually meant to be doing - writing an encyclopaedia.

— I have no interest in your theorism about who is, or who is not, forming clandestine organisations in support of Presley's reputation.

Perhaps that is clearer. Best regards, --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 14:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry that I may have missed the point. However, as Elvis is often referred to as a "sex symbol" who allegedly had many one-night stands, some sources which prove that this was not the case should be mentioned in the article. By the way, this is only a very short part of my recent contributions. What about Elvis's male friendships which played an important part of his life and which are documented in every biography? All this material has been deleted by Lochdale. I have now rewritten some parts of the said paragraphs. Onefortyone 14:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Please, Onefortyone, give it a break. Presley may indeed often be referred to as a sex symbol or as having had many one-night stands; but it is hardly an encyclopedia's job to confirm or refute what's written in gossipy magazines or related in beer-fueled bar chats. Even before my slight interest in Presley's music dissipated (thanks to work on his WP article), I never heard anything about his one-night stands (merely some talk about his perhaps illicit taste for young girls). Still, toward the end of the period in which I attempted to stop the Presley article from complete collapse, I read Guralnick's Last Train to Memphis, which makes it abundantly clear that once Presley's career had taken off and girls were throwing themselves at him, he had plenty of one-night stands. Many were merely sexual; during the same period he'd sometimes just like to talk. Later in life he probably had a normal decline of the libido, aggravated by the effects of drugs; the huge "mafia"-interviews book (which I skimread) suggests that well into his thirties he was still enjoying plenty of one-night stands. None of this seems remarkable in itself, all of it seems a bit tawdry (my apologies to Nicholas for mucking up his page with it), and I've nowhere read that it affected his movies or music. It's trivia. -- Hoary 00:43, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there anything that can be done to stop this constant issue involving Onefortyone? He is pretty much obsessed with the Presley article and is now generating other articles dealing with trivial figures for the sole purpose of referencing them in the main article See [here] This article is a travesty when compared with articles dealing with other music stars such as John Lennon. Is arbitration the only solution? Lochdale 02:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion here removed by the God-King

User:Jimbo Wales, removed the discussion that went here. I will not write here why I think he probably did (and I will especially not mention the M-word) as I fear it may incur the Foundation's wrath. For anyone who wishes to view the removed text (which I feel is fairly innocuous) click this diff link. --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 03:13, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Recording Ensemble Project

I noticed your proposal for a WikiProject on Recording Ensembles. I hope I got the subject matter right, and that you don't mind if it is listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject/List of proposed projects. I know that I should have consulted you first, but I didn't think to. Sorry. If you don't want it there, please feel free to remove it from the page. Thank you for your consideration. Badbilltucker 23:54, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anne Hathaway (Shakespeare) dispute

Please take a look - I am trying to add a new text about Anne Hathaway. It's a play by a Canadian playwright and is on the emerging scene. I am mystified as to why the fellow who keeps reverting insists that to mention "Shakespeare's Will" (the play) in the context of new texts about Anne Hathaway, is spam. Please help. Thank you. Josiewarvelle 13:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Autoblock on myself

Your request to be unblocked has been granted for the following reason(s):

Mate I unblocked and then reblocked anons only and deactived autoblocks - has that done the trick??

Request handled by: Glen 12:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

This IP is a shared proxy from the University of Sussex (the only place I have Internet access at the moment!) and I'd be most grateful if someone could unblock it. I'll keep an eye on the proxy contribs, if that would help. Obviously, it's bad form to unblock yourself, so I won't touch it. Thanks. --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 12:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Mate if its an autoblock you're fine... but I'm on the case now for ya Glen 12:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on this page - or throw the unblock template back up... or, please, unblock yourself (as it isnt you thats blocked so you arent breaching policy really...) Glen 12:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem at all :) Well, the policy doesnt actually stipulate to my recollection but it does state you cant unblock yourself (the implication being you were the one blocked). Since you werent blocked, you arent unblocking yourself (as in your blocklog remains clean...)

Hell. thats my story and im sticking with it anyway! Welcome back :) Glen 12:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE:Insertion of YTMND references in Wikipedia article

Apologies if I caused any trouble or anger. I'll make sure to discuss controversial edits to articles before making them in the future. --EBCouncil ^{Speak with the Council} 16:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

I just thought I'd say hi, since we haven't talked for a while... I've become a little less involved in advocacy since we last spoke (pressures of life, etc.), but I've started writing the Report on Lengthy Litigation for the Signpost, which is quite fun, although I don't think I've quite become a bona fide hack just yet. I've tried to become less of a process wonk, although I think I'll never truly leave that part of me behind, and I'm not entirely sure that I want to - WP:PI, after all. By the way, I must say that I admire your Chutzpah wrt Jimbo's edit... David Mestel^(Talk) 17:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lineal Heavy weight boxing champions

Hi, you replied on meditation, is that something new, i thought i should post on administrator noticeboard? I want to recreate that article, was deleted for no reason, will need your assistance, also i need a good wikipedian to look after my edits. Boxingwear —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Boxingwear (talk • contribs).

Removed IP-posted comment by banned user BoxingWear (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log). --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 01:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hey! =)

Good to see you! I was wondering the other day why I never saw your edits around anymore and was sad when I saw you mentioning you "don't even edit Wikipedia any more, really". (Even though I have been kind of cutting back myself.) Hope things are going well for you, and if you ever feel like dropping a line, the e-mail link on my page does work, last time I checked. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help is needed on NOR issue

I need your opinion urgently about NOR on Languages of Iran; as you will see from the history of the article and its talk page I have been told that we cannot take a calculator and add up the figures on this article and demonstrate the discrepancies because that is counted as Original research! Is this true? Is adding up the figures on a list and showing their discrepancies counted as original Research? Kiumars

[edit] WikiProject updates

I have done some updating to the WP:SCN, added some new articles, added a "to do" list to the top of the project, and fixed up some categories and assessment stuff. I suggest we should all pick one article at a time, or at most two, to work on bringing up to Featured Article status. You could give input on the project's talk page... Smee 21:26, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
- Also, a Userbox for project members, {{User Scientology project}} Smee 21:26, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Man, thanks

Thank you for being one of the few kind users that I have had the fortune of dealing with. It seems that there are very few that assume good faith, and try to be respectful and complacent as much as you do. Why are most people on Wikipedia so uptight? Why are they even here? To be a truly productive Wikipedian is extremely demanding, I can understand that. Not only do they have to go through the research to make an article great, they also need to debate (sometimes for months) just to reach an ultimate decision of inclusion of what they have worked so hard to write. Finally, Wikipedia would be a great place if everyone were as patient and long-suffering as you have projected yourself to be. Keep it up. IBeatAnorexia 23:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

In response to your last comment on my talk page: I would like to apoligize in regards to my behavior recently on Wikipedia. I suppose that I became over-frustrated in my attempt to create new, interesting content. The way people are treated here just gets to me... Though I shouldn't lash back so readily. I understand that you have a job to do, and if you must block me from the project, that's soley your perogative, and I wouldn't blame you for it. Maybe it's time I move on, as Wikipedia is at a level higher than I can adequately cope with. IBeatAnorexia 23:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Actually ....

I just got your e-mail and was about to call you but remembered that it is probably a bad idea to call you at all hours of the night now! I was so thrilled to hear from you. I will call you tomorrow afternoon. And no, not editing again. I have to for an assignment for university, but once it over, I plan to go right back into retirement. How the hell are you? Páll ^{(Die pienk olifant)} 05:37, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I think I would like to join the Guerrilla Mediation Network in the future.

Hello! I am too busy to be helpful right now, but I think I would like to join the Guerrilla Mediation Network sometime in the future. I am on the Mediation Committee. Thanks, Armed Blowfish (talk|mail) 23:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Townshend

Thank you for your note. I understand your action. It is a source of regret to me that a this edit war (the third such war on the topic in 15 months) erupted again. An administrator worked very hard the last time this happened - a few weeks ago - and fashioned a compromise. I was not entirely happy with it - but I signed on and agreed to it. As did the others. I understood that the administrator was trying to resolve the situation. All had been well in the article until this morning - when the issue suddenly arose again. My actions today were solely re-active in trying to restore the status quo ordained by the administrator a few weeks back - and encourage arguments to be taken to the Talk Page. Alas there did not seem to be a great willingness to do that. There seem to be recurrent attempts to insert pejorative material into the article - disproportionate to the incident and the actual resolution of the matter in 2003 - by which the police surveyed all the evidence and decided not to prosecute Mr. Townshend. My sole concern is that the article should not end up doing that the police decided NOT to do.

I think that a soft ban should help cool off matters and I accept your reasons for instituting it. I hope and trust that none of the earlier participants in the original edit wars (of which today's actions were a minor skirmish in comparison) - editors NOT covered by the ban - will take advantage of the situation to change the article from the NPOV status it had for several weeks until today's new bout of changes.

How long do you propose the soft ban be in place on the 3 editors in respect of this article? Thank you. Davidpatrick 01:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi. 23skidoo here. No objections to your action and I'm glad to see at least one of the parties involved understands (see above). With respect, though, I don't think this will solve the issue right away as there are other parties who are not directly involved in the current situation (editors I see David references above) who could take advantage of the situation to basically continue the same battles. If you could help me keep an eye on things, that would be much appreciated. It may be necessary to soft ban a couple more people if they start acting up again, though hopefully it won't come to that. Unfortunately this situation has arisen during a particularly busy week for me in the "real world" so I can't be on top of things as much as I'd like. 23skidoo 02:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding soft ban

The action is under discussion at WP:CN. Feel free to comment there. Regards, Navou ^banter / _contribs 16:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pigsonthewing

Andy Mabbett alias Pigsonthewing was banned a number of times in the past and in one case for a year for aggrevating Wiki users. [14] [15] 71.80.39.237 01:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

71.80.39.237 01:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

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