Talk:Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

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Contents 1 Various comments up to May 2004 2 Changes to the faction sections? 3 Social engineering effects descriptions 4 Good enough to have the warning/encouragement "Cleanup" message removed? 5 Dealing with article length 6 Reference to manual? 7 The Three Stars of Alpha Centauri 8 The represented amount of Citizens 9 Sid Meier's part in Alpha Centauri 10 Any possibility of a remake/sequel? 11 Pirates and eight pod 12 Minor link repair 13 Hive faction correction 14 Terminology table 15 Freeware?! 16 Inspirations 17 Bravo 18 Michael Ely's Novels 19 Dragon Sun 20 The Believers

[edit] Various comments up to May 2004

Should some of the repeated info about both the Usurpers and Caretakers be compiled into one explanatory entry? As it is now it seems a bit ungainly.

Should we add a lot more stuff to it like factions and units and secret project information? Just the secret project data alone is informative, including the space elevator, the singularity (ascent to transcendence), matter teleportion (they've teleported photons), lots of other ideas.

Alpha Centauri is a one stop shop for information about future technologies :). ShaunMacPherson

Sure. Just be careful not to straight copy from another website. →Raul654 08:14, Feb 6, 2004 (UTC)

I really think this belongs at "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri". Almost all fans seem to agree this is the full form of the name, because they usually abbreviate it as SMAC. --Furrykef 06:51, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

The Planetbuster section seems semi-fictitious and largely unrelated to the workings of the game (does it retell events in the books, perhaps?). It is also dreadfully long, IMO. It's so large I didn't want to change it without notice, but unless someone has a different opinion, I'm going to remove large chunks of it. --Teeks 16:54, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. --Furrykef 22:10, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

I was considering integrating the top part on planetbusters (before it goes fiction) in a new "units and strategy" sections, explaining the importance of grabbing land, developing units and getting commerce and research going. I was wondering, however, if this would be appropriate for the wikipedia. I mean, there are a million strategy sites out there dealing with this stuff (apolyton, actually linked from the articly, for example), so would this be superfluous? --Teeks 10:04, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

The Civ wikibook, linked to at the bottom, will contain more than most people would probably ever want to know about SMAC strategy. (I'm currently integrating information from Velociryx's guide, which is already vast itself.) I wouldn't bother. --Furrykef 14:41, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

Ah, yes, this makes the section on planetbusters entirely uneccesary. I'll chop the entire thing.

I personally think the entire entry is much better balanced now. Still, comments and scoldings will be appreciated. --Teeks 17:00, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Changes to the faction sections?

I think that maybe some changes need to be made to the faction sections, as currently they describe the effects of the starting social factors, and don't give the actual society benefits and drawbacks. Should I add details of these at the bottom of each entry, and keep the text, or should I put them in the text (eg 'the spartans have a +1 to moral meaning that their units have a higher moral level etc), or should I remove some of the text and replace it with the stats, and put a table or list somewhere explaining what the stats mean (eg +1 moral gives +1 to unit experience or whatever). I don't want to delete bits if other people want them to stay. What do you all think?Pikpik 00:41, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• The more the merrier. Different viewers have different ways of mentally and physically organising info. Some of us draw various different relationship charts at home, so why not give WP viewers the same sort of variety? Robin Patterson 23:58, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The current faction descriptions sound a lot like those found in-game. I can't remember word for word, but I think they should be checked for possible copyright problems? Correct me if I'm horribly wrong. T.P.K. 09:45, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Social engineering effects descriptions

I'm finding many of this in the faction descriptions. Take for example, the Morganite faction, a part which I edited. Their energy bonus of +1 Economy in the game not only gives them +1 energy per base, but its a climbing step to the +1 energy per square when combined with Wealth/Golden Ages without the pacifist or ecological effects of free market.

In fact, in the spirit of Environmental Economics, Democracy+Green+Wealth is often a very sound choice, with good efficiency to keep all that energy. One could be crazy and head for Free Market with all the commerce bonuses, but thats also another possibility. This doesn't have to be mentioned explicitly, but its not only that they can only support one free unit that hurts, but when combined with democracy, they get -3 support. Etc.

Spartans, for example, with police state, they reach the ultimate +3 Police. This can be combined with Free Market to yield a not so hurtful -2 Police.

Stuff like that. Perhaps it should be explained, that having a population bonus is not only going to speed up growth via percentage points, but that crossing to +6 growth will yield population booms. Natalinasmpf 15:17, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but it almost sounds more like a strategy thing, i.e., "You can do this or that, but you might want to consider this over here." There's already a Wikibook for that kind of thing (see External Links section). Or are you suggesting perhaps a separate section to the article with a list like "This social engg. choice has these effects"? --LUH 3417 19:02, 2004 Oct 25 (UTC)

No I'm not referring to strategy....the article has been mostly cleaned up now, so perhaps it doesn't really matter, but I have some reservations. +1 ECONOMY does not just represent +1 energy per base. Its a stepping stone to +2 ECONOMY. The Morganites' social strength is not just a meagre +1 energy per base...they have an infrastructure laid to get additional economy bonuses to hit jackpot. Perhaps I should put it this way. If I accumulate some demerit points in traffic fines, I do not just pay fines - if I accumulate more, I might get my license revoked. Its rather hard to put, but I hope you get what I mean. -- Natalinasmpf 23:18, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Good enough to have the warning/encouragement "Cleanup" message removed?

The history notes don't show when that message was added to the top. But there's been heaps of good work done recently, and the article looks quite good to me (a professional wordsmith and occasional player). You contributors may be all too modest, but I think it's time to remove that box message.

Small further improvements I suggest:

• Subheadings under "Gameplay"
• Faction lists - remove the bullets and duplicated names from the start of each para.
  Robin Patterson 02:22, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Very good, I'll make the changes now. Krupo 03:08, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

Robin: What do you mean the history notes don't show the cleanup-addition date? Look more carefully: "23 Oct 2004 ZeroOne ({{cleanup}})". :p I agree the article looks good now. :) Missing screenshot is the only downside. Krupo, maybe you could provide one? --ZeroOne 12:25, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hell yeah. ;) Actually, I'm going to add the CD first, then load the game for a screenshot. Might take a while before I 'come up for air' ... Krupo 04:17, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

Great! :) (Btw, I changed the screenshot licence to {{screenshot}} (Template:screenshot).) --ZeroOne 16:23, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thanks - that was, as you may have guessed, the first screenshot I've posted here. :) Krupo 17:41, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Dealing with article length

Anyone think it might soon be time to make a subpage of some sort, perhaps for the faction descriptions? Or is the >32k article size acceptable? Krupo 05:12, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps Alien Crossfire should be made an article of its own. --ZeroOne 16:30, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Not a bad idea. Krupo 22:09, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reference to manual?

How could a reference be made to the manual? It seems like the lack of references is a major hold up in FAC, so how could that be taken care of? Just write "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri Game Manual, published by Electronic Arts"? Spangineer 03:48, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] The Three Stars of Alpha Centauri

This apparently has been confusing enough to cause a small edit conflict. See, the Alpha Centauri system has three stars. Chiron supposedly orbits Alpha Centauri A, the largest and brightest of the three. Alpha Centauri B is smaller and less bright, but still close enough to the planet to cause seasonal variations for 20 years out of every 80.

The point of contention seems to be the relevance of Alpha Centauri C, aka Proxima Centauri. It's a red dwarf on the edge of the system. Its light and gravity are of little effect on Chiron aside from being a bright star in the sky. Still, even though the star is not mentioned in gameplay, it is on the game packaging as a bright star near the "A" in Alpha Centauri (don't mistake it for a starburst on the logo) and on the game disc as a bright star next to the Firaxis logo. Thus, there are three stars in the system, even though there are two suns from Chiron's perspective. --Alexwcovington 03:19, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If memory serves, Proxima Centauri is mentioned in gameplay - when it enters perihelion, there is a temporary energy bonus in all squares. That is, unless it was actually Alpha Centauri B, but I'm quite certain it was C.

--AndromedaRoach 22:25, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

No, the game brings it to your attention when Alpha Centauri B is at perihelion. Proxima is too distant, too small, and too dim to be anything but a star in the sky (but still a bright one). As you'll read in Alpha Centauri, they did their homework for the game: Alpha Centauri A and Alpha Centauri B orbit each other once every 80 years. The orbital period for Proxima is in the range of thousands of years.

--User:Alexwcovington (User talk:Alexwcovington) 03:17, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Actually, the whole Alpha Centauri A system section should probably be either rewritten or removed. I'm quite familiar with the game, but when I reached this section I couldn't figure out what it was doing in the article. It doesn't really add much to the article and should, in my opinion, be striken. ClarkBHM 20:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, I intend on removing the section unless there are objections?

The game calls Alpha Centauri B "Hercules", if I remember correctly. Is that the actual name given to the star or just a Firaxis idea? Chronolegion 20:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The represented amount of Citizens

"Citizens are the inhabitants of a base. One citizen represents 1,000 inhabitants (as opposed to Civilization's citizens, who each represent 10,000 inhabitants)"

This is false... 1 Citizen in Alpha Centauri represents 10,000 inhabitants, not 1,000. For proof of this, just obliterate a populated base. The number of Citizens which are put to the death is 10,000 times the base size. Perhaps I'm mistaken in assuming base size and number of Citizens are the same, but I'm still curious about where it says that it is 1,000 and not 10,000? If no one responds or has any objections after a week or so, I'll go ahead and change it.

[edit] Sid Meier's part in Alpha Centauri

It is a common knowledge that "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" is actually mainly "Brian Reynolds'" work. I am pretty sure it is worth mentioning but.. Anybody knows to what extent Brian worked on it more than Sid? Has Sid actually did anything for this game besides putting his name on it?

--Vitalyb 11:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, there is a picture of him in the game, if you play as the Sid faction. Anyway, if I remember correctly, he had to approve everything related to the game. While he did not have a hand in the actual creation process, he still made sure the game was top-of-the-line. Chronolegion 14:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Any possibility of a remake/sequel?

Have any of the original developers of SMAC raised the possibility of a remake or sequel (perhaps a spiritual successor)?

[edit] Pirates and eight pod

In the story section there is a mention of an eight colony pod exploding in the game intro and how it somehow explained the Nautilus Pirates in the expansion. I remember the exploding pod, but I've never heard that it might be in any way connected to the Pirates faction. Can anybody provide source for this? Zainker 16:44, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I haven't seen the intro in a while, but perhaps it is not a colony pod that explodes but the main part of the ship. There was a pod that was heavily damaged by the meteorites - it became the HQ for the Believers. As for the Pirates, Svensgaard is mentioned to be the navigator for the UNITY. However, the Journey to Centauri story states that there were seven pod. Then again, Michael Ely's Centauri novels don't have any mention of the Alien Crossfire factions. Chronolegion 12:16, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I put a "verify source" tag on it, but I strongly suspect it's just speculation not based on any official source. The connection between the Pirates and the eight pods are not mentioned in the Alien Crossfire manual or the profiles on the official site. It's been a while since I read through the "arrival" novelette in full, but after reading through parts of it, I'm fairly certain it's not mentioned there either. If nobody can come up with good sources in favour of this claim I beleive it should be deleted. Oh, and "Journey" actually does mention there being eight pods, but it doesn't say what happened to it, nor does it mention Svensgaard or the Pirates (As both had most likely not been created by the time it was written).Zainker 14:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Minor link repair

There was a link to Power, which is a disambiguation page. I revised it to point to Power (sociology). Gerry Ashton 19:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment Just read overleaf that Gians have no penalty moving over fungus. Not that I recall, and that's my preferred faction. I seem to recall one had to discover something (or was it build something) to remove the penalty.

[edit] Hive faction correction

"In the original version of the game, the Hives' belief in the greater good greatly raised the morale of Yang's army. In the expansion pack, the Hive loses its morale bonus but is given an immunity to inefficiency, which greatly bolsters the Police State government used by Yang, as it removes all negative side effects."

In the released verion of the game, The Hive does NOT have a Morale boost, plus the Hive has an impunity to inefficiency caused by Police State and Planned Economy. I'm going to fix this. - Peter Bjørn Perlsø 22:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Terminology table

After this exam season passes, in a few weeks' time, I intend to add infromation on the equivalences and differences between Alpha Centauri and the Civilizations. AC is very much "Civ in SPACE", and much of its terminology is retitled Civ material. Comparing the concepts of the two should make it easier to get a grasp on the former and be otherwise neat as well. The main thing will be a table somewhere along these lines:

Alpha Centauri	Civilization	Notes
Datalinks	Civilopedia
Nutrients/Minerals/Energy	Food/Production/Trade
Drone/Normal/Talent	Unhappy/Content/Happy
Formers	Workers (CIV III-IV) and Settlers (CIV I-II, secondary function)	Terraforming options open gradually (CIV IV) and are far more extensive
Xenofungus	(no equivalent)
Planetbuster	Nuclear missile	Destroy bases outright, leaving massive craters, instead of causing partial destruction and pollution; can also be detonated at will; other payloads (available only in Alien Crossfire extension) can cause earthquakes (change altitude) or xenofungus growth
Planetary Council	United Nations
Mindworms, Isles of the Deep, Locusts of Chiron	Barbarians	Xeno lifeforms have no leader and move faster through xenofungus
Psi-combat	(no equivalent)
Secret Project	Wonder
Unity Pod	Village
Monolith	(no equivalent)

So if you disagree with the idea, the best time to say so is now. --Kizor 21:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

* Good idea, but I'd say the monoliths have a semi-equivelant in tribal villages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anrie (talk • contribs) 09:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC). - Anrie 09:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

• There's some resemblance, but given the monoliths' other capabilities - unit repair and, in particular, great productivity from cities - I'd classify them separately. --Kizor 01:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Freeware?!

It says that the game was released as freeware, but I cannot find any indication of this being the case anywhere online. Source for this?

--ZavenH 10:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

• I second this request for a source on that. Actually, I'm going a step further, I'm removing that unsubstantiated claim. I think whoever wrote that may have honestly been thinking of this - [1] - found with a simple google for "freeware smac" - Sounds like a "Spoofed MAC" utility - used for networking exercises. Krupo 04:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  • The copy protection caused some problems and was removed in the 1.3 patch. That's as far as I know this goes. --Kizor 13:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inspirations

Should Solaris by Stanislaw Lem be added as one of the possible inspirations to the game? The book also featured a living planet capable of psychic communication. Chronolegion 08:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• If the Developer's Notes in the back of the manual cite it, then by all means. I don't feel like digging out the manual and re-reading it, but take a look and if you see it, then it's clearly fair game (the devel notes are quite detailed on their inspirations). Krupo 04:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I'd have to find the manual first. Chronolegion 12:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Replacementdocs.com is your friend. There's no mention of Solaris. Solaris is more of a completely alien being rather than a relatively mundane hive being, too. --Kizor 14:14, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
      • The mind of Planet looks more or less like a Solaris-type entity (especially before it becomes aware/awake), not a hive mind, to me. Of course, without any reference to a developer saying they were influenced by Solaris, this would fall under original research? Krum Stanoev 18:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Pretty much. In any case sentient planets are pretty common in lititure Mogo, Petaybee, the bank, Ego the Living Planet and various others.Geni 19:05, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think it's very probable that they were indeed influenced by Solaris, but this is not a place to discuss that :) Krum Stanoev 19:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bravo

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this article. It covers the game clearly and concisely. Somebody should consider stepping up to the plate and fixing some of the stuff raised in the last nomination for WP:FA, in preparation for nominating it again. I really think this article could go all the way. – Lantoka (talk) 07:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

SMAC: Great game or greatest game? Please choose. 24.224.154.12 21:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

While it is certainly great, I kinda like CivIV better. Chronolegion 14:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

• YEah but then again civ4 is years after this with better computers. Jamhaw 15:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)jamhaw

Hmm, well, no offense, but, if you're talking about greatest games, might wanna mention the time period or, at least, say "for its time". Chronolegion 13:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Ely's Novels

Does anyone know if Michael Ely (or someone else) plans to continue his Alpha Centauri trilogy? Chronolegion 14:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dragon Sun

Does anyone know what happened to the article for "Dragon Sun"? Chronolegion 14:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The deletion logs say that it was speedily deleted as a copyright violation from here back in October. --Kizor 16:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to write another one, if you wish. --Kizor 12:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Hehe. I would have to reread the book. I just remember the general stuff. Chronolegion 13:05, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Believers

It's interesting that the Believers social engineering status more or less puts them at odds with every other faction, except perhaps the Spartans and Gaians. In just about every game I've played, they end up declaring war on all the other factions,The Univerity for it's focus on knowledge, The Morganites for their interest in wealth, the Drones and Peacekeepers for their secular attitudes.--Vercalos 06:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

This has probably more to do with their behaviour being "aggressive" rather than their social favourite. The other aggressive faction, the Hive, also tends to have a short fuse when dealing with others, often using any excuse (such as you not giving them half your energy reserves) to go to war. Different social engineering choices only give them another excuse to invade.

Each faction is only sensitive to the social engineering section their favourite system belongs to. The Believers favourite civic (I'm using the Civ4 term here for convenience, since the whole civic system was based on Alpha Centauri) is fundamentalism. Since fundamentalism is a political civic the believers will only become (more) pissed at factions that chose the other political civics, Democracy and Police state, while will not care about economic, values or future society civics. As a result, the believers will be more likely to be pissed at the Peacekeepers (Democracy), Hive (Police State) and University (cannot go Fundy). The best way to stay friendly with the Believers would therefore be adopting Fundy (or stay in frontier if you can't/won't, since default civics don't incur penalties) and giving in to their demands, that or using your (hopefully) technologically superior force to beat their fanatic asses until they surrender. Zainker 18:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)