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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject user warnings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject user warnings

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Contents

[edit] To do

To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject user warnings: edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
  • First phase (Multi level templates)
    • Bring all template pages on Overview page to For review status. Done
    • Migrate templates to individual pages then decide go live date. Done
    • Publicity campaign for project, to make users aware of impending changes.
    • Create new WP:UTM page, and bring the page under control of this project.
    • Update documentation to reflect all changes and implementation procedure.
  • Second phase (Single level templates)
    • Identify all UW templates and make sure they are included in Cat:User warning templates
    • Create single level warning overview page.

Purge this page
Priority 4


[edit] Block templates

Why do the block templates (e.g. {{uw-block1}}) have a link to the talk page? They're placed on talk pages, so the link doesn't do anything. What other pages are they going to be on? – Qxz 11:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Seems a reasonable point I can't think of anything. Remove it if you wish if there is a reason behind it then it can easily be reverted later. Cheers Khukri - 15:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Warning: "Please do not touch this page"

Is the warning "Please do not touch this page as I'm currently setting up the second phase of this project. as I'm currently setting up the second phase of this project." still valid? I'm sorry, I noticed it too late. Please feel free to revert my last edit. — Sebastian 04:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Not a prob, I've been busy as hell with work so I'm going to remove it and ask others to get stuck in. Khukri - 10:47, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help needed

Unfortunatly I'm too busy as hell at the moment, what with work and house renovations, which means I can't devote as much time at the moment to the single issue template as I did when we did the multi-level warnings. If regulars on this project who know what's going on could visit the re-done overview page and add their comments that would be appreciated. We're trying to identify what there are duplicates of, what can be redirected where, the single issue templates that need to be created or left as is, what can be XfD or de-categorised. Then we can go on to deciding the layout on all of these templates and start the whole shooting match off again. coople of things I've been mulling over is the uw- prefix is it necessary for single issue, or do we want the same for all, if it's not a warning do you use ut- um- or nothing? I'd like to see the category change from user warnings to user messages as is the name of this page here. At the moment welcomes are listed as warnings, we can then add the shared IP's headers etc without any problems. Please keep all the discussion about this over here and not WT:UTM, that way we can keep the existing templates discussion away from theoretical templates and what may happen. I see a couple of you have started to get stuck in, but please I'd like more opinions. Thanks and over n out. Khukri - 08:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you template

Thank you! We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Your apology or cleanup was greatly appreciated. I look forward to your further positive contributions.

I created a quick template called uw-thankyou. A user that I had warned responded with an apology — or at least an explanation of their actions. I'd like some way to take the bite out of my warning, but I don't think removing the warning is the right thing to do. So I created something that says, "The problem still happened, but you appear to be a good editor and you have promised to do better." Does this fit into the spirit and goals of the UW project? --Mdwyer 18:13, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

OK but it shouldn't really be uw as it's not a warning. But add it to the overview page and we'll see how it goes. Cheers Khukri - 15:17, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I'll try. I'll try not to break anything. Mdwyer 18:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New racism template

I created {{uw-racism}} today, which can be seen here:

Please do not make racist comments towards other users, as you did at {{{1}}}. Wikipedia has a strict 'no personal attacks' policy. Users who continue to be racist towards other users may be blocked. You have been blocked for {{{2}}} for your comments at {{{3}}}.

This is intended for use on controversial topics that involve racism, e.g. Israeli apartheid, Balkan-related topics etc.

Feedback is appreciated. --sunstar nettalk 02:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the "you have been blocked part" should be taken out. And this template should be like 4im (only warning) --TeckWizParlateContribs@ 02:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Feel free to fix it. I made some mistakes, but hey, you can fix them if you want, no big deal. --sunstar nettalk 02:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm still not entirly sure about adding uw for having uw sake. We did it for a reason with the multi level temaplates but for single issue is it necessary? I think a warning of racism would be the same as {{pinfo}} or {{threat}}, one warning n then your out. Khukri 22:50, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it's logical to add the uw- prefix, so people may separate the new and old templates, also it enables clearing the template namespace from words that have ambiguous meaning, and often means something else than an user warning, both of multiple and single level warnings. One example of this is the legacy template {{drmafd}}, because {{afd}} was taken (what now drm stands for is beyond me). If we want, we could always expand the prefix to um- for notices (non-warnings and welcome messages). →AzaToth 13:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
That would be a good idea, once the overview page has been completed with secondary comments I'll flesh out all the single issue templates and put them all in this format for people to see. Then take into account all Gracenotes shortcuts, I think we could get a pretyy comprehensive harmonised system. Khukri 17:08, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Uw-tpv

I'm wondering about the Uw-tpv templates? Are these appropriate to use if a user regularly deletes comments off of their own talk pages and only archives some comments? Or if the user regularly deletes warnings? The Uw-tpv templates sites the talk page guidelines which includes this as well. Obviously the warning isn't really written for this, but I couldn't find anything else for someone systematically hiding conflicts by arching some discussions and deleting the rest. Any thoughts? Miss Mondegreen 10:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Well the current consensus is that people are allowed to remove what they want from their talk page. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject user warnings/Archives/2007/01#Removing_warnings if you want more information. (when in doubt I check the user's page history) -- lucasbfr talk 10:21, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
A question of that, if you are going to warn a user, and see that the user has removed old warnings, should I restore those warnings, or on a blank page, add a single more severe warning directly? →AzaToth 13:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Personally I restore the page content if the edit was just blanking. But I don't warn them for that. The cleanest way would probably be directly adding the next in line template. -- lucasbfr talk 15:23, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, it's not just users who remove warnings, but talk page comments in general which is against the talk page guidelines. I've noticed a lot of user's remove comments and suggestions that don't show them in a good light when they archive by archiving five out of six comments and leaving an edit summary that says archiving. Or they respond to an ordinary talk page comment or light warning with a lot of anger and remove the initial comment, leaving something only on the other user's talk page. So one user's talk page may look like they've picked fights with everyone west of the mississipi, but if you go and look at the other user's talk page diffs, they didn't. And the other user's pages may make them look fair and balanced, but they've picked fights and done a million other things. I once had someone pick a fight with me because they thought it was hostile, inappropriate and nasty of me to have placed a template warning on their page when I could have hand-written one (I'm not kidding).
Anyway, I think that things should be straightforward all the way through on this issue. If users can delete warnings and comments on their own pages, the talk page guidelines should be ammended, and the usage guidelines for the template should be also. And we shouldn't have warnings for removal of warnings or anything else to the talk page, because users can do what they want. If users are supposed to maintain talk records, then again, things should be the same. The problem is that we are giving out one message in some places and another message in other places. Miss Mondegreen | Talk   02:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template glitch in npov1?

I tried to use {{subst:uw-npov1|Article|Additional text}}, but the preview function showed that my "Additional text" was not incorporated into the message. I cannot discern why, so I infer that there is an error in the template structure. (As a result, I ended up escalating the warning level and sending the user {{subst:uw-npov2|Article|Additional text}}, which worked the way it is supposed to work.)--orlady 14:46, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Woops fixed. Tell me what you think since I made the last sentence optional and diseapear when you add the additional text. Having it and the additional text seemed weird to me. -- lucasbfr talk 15:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! I haven't tried to send anyone that warning recently to see how it works, but I endorse your idea of deleting that last sentence when the additional text element is used. Thanks! --orlady 16:36, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] comments, misleading edit summaries

Hi -- A little confused about the "comments" on the front page, so I'm posting here. Currently the recommendation on "wrongsummaryX" templates is to merge with "edit summary personalX". The edit summary personalX summaries are about abusive summaries; the wrongsummaryX templates are about inaccurate or intentionally misleading summaries. I've had encounters with editors who attempt to disguise their edits with misleading summaries, describing as "reverting vandalism" when they're actually vandalizing, etc. This is really confusing for folks who are just scanning lists and reading edit summaries, and a tag that specifically addresses this behavior is important for documenting the problem. --lquilter 16:44, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Optional parameter in the "usernameblock" ("unb") template

What isn't documented at {{usernameblock}}, and should be (but I can't edit it to do so, it's protected), is that the template takes an optional parameter. {{usernameblock|reason for block}}, or even {{unb|reason for block}}, will replace the rest of the sentence following "blocked indefinitely because", up to the parenthetical "(see our blocking and username policies for more information)", with your own specific reason for the block.

That is, the boilerplate text -- ..."it may be rude or inflammatory, unnecessarily long/confusing, too similar to an existing user, contains the name of an organization or website, or is otherwise inappropriate"... -- goes away and is replaced by your own text.

If you enter:   {{unb|"Charles Prince of Wales" too closely resembles the existing username "The Outlaw Josey Wales"}}
you get:

Your username has been blocked indefinitely because "Charles Prince of Wales" too closely resembles the existing username "The Outlaw Josey Wales" (see our blocking and username policies for more information).
(and the rest of the template stays the same)

Please pass the word. For blocking admins to consistently use that feature would certainly cut down on our head-scratching at WP:RFCN over "Why was this name blocked?" -- Ben 05:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shortcuts for RFC-related templates

Khukri had suggested:"Just my tuppence worth but maybe trying to group them with the prefix rfc, and all the templates titles should be in lowerecase."   Okay. The long forms now also have lowercased shortcuts. Since the longstanding {{UsernameBlocked}} already had shortcut {{unb}}, I gave the others similar shortcuts (as close as I could get, since {{ucr}} and {{unc}} were already taken), and then also rfc-prefix forms with just three letters after the dash:

(edit view)

RFC-related templates and shortcuts:

Template lowercase rfc- prefix short rfc- prefix Parameters, (req)uired or (opt)ional
{{ArticleConcern}} {{articleconcern}} {{rfc-articleconcern}} {{artc}} {{rfc-arc}} article name (req), nature of concern (opt)
{{ArticleDiscussion}} {{articlediscussion}} {{rfc-articlediscussion}} {{artd}} {{rfc-ard}} article name (req)
{{ArticleResult}} {{articleresult}} {{rfc-articleresult}} {{artr}} {{rfc-arr}} article name (req), outcome of RFC (opt)
{{ConductConcern}} {{conductconcern}} {{rfc-conductconcern}} {{ucc}} {{rfc-ucc}} nature of concern (opt)
{{ConductDiscussion}} {{conductdiscussion}} {{rfc-conductdiscussion}} {{ucd}} {{rfc-ucd}} conduct issue (opt)
{{ConductNotice}} {{conductnotice}} {{rfc-conductnotice}} {{ucn}} {{rfc-ucn}} RFC/USER subject's name (req)
{{ConductResult}} {{conductresult}} {{rfc-conductresult}} {{ucres}} {{rfc-ucr}} outcome of RFC (opt)
{{UsernameConcern}} {{usernameconcern}} {{rfc-usernameconcern}} {{uncon}} {{rfc-unc}} nature of objection (opt)
{{UsernameDiscussion}} {{usernamediscussion}} {{rfc-usernamediscussion}} {{und}} {{rfc-und}} name issue in discussion (opt)
{{UsernameNotice}} {{usernamenotice}} {{rfc-usernamenotice}} {{un}} {{rfc-unn}} RFC/NAME subject's name (req)
{{UsernameAllowed}} {{usernameallowed}} {{rfc-usernameallowed}} {{una}} {{rfc-una}} archived RFC's "oldid=#" (opt)
{{UsernameBlocked}} {{usernameblocked}} {{rfc-usernameblocked}} {{unb}} {{rfc-unb}} reason for block (opt)

All of these templates need to be substituted: please use {{subst:template}}, not just {{template}}. All these templates (except {{UsernameBlocked}}) will automatically add your signature, unless you add the optional parameter sig=n.

That should save a bit of typing time. -- Ben 08:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Replied on my talk page, but great stuff. Khukri 10:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I think you should only have templates with the rfc-prefix, so to not pollute the namespace with redirects, for example: {{rfc-articleconcern}} and {{rfc-arc}} →AzaToth 21:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I paralleled the naming format and shortcuts of the pre-existing (and protected) {{UsernameBlocked}}, adding rfc-prefixed shortcuts to meet this project's standards. Since that template's {{usernameblock}} / {{unb}} formats are already in heavy use (and in policy), I thought it best not to delete them. Redirects let people use the format they prefer: full words for those who can't remember the abbreviation, and abbreviations for those who want to save typing time. -- Ben 19:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
On WT:RFC someone asked for a template to notify other users of a conduct RFC (not about them), which I hadn't thought to write because such a short text is almost as easy to just type from scratch, but hey, if it saves a few keystrokes and it's wanted, that's reason enough. So I've created {{ConductDiscussion}} (used as {{subst:ucn|username}} for short), and it's in the table. -- Ben 23:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Having done some tinkering, I'm actually feeling rather proud of {{ucn}} / {{ConductNotice}}, after all. I built in a bit of functionality that makes it a little more than just a short text-printing macro. When someone's already been the subject of one or more previous RFCs, the new RFC is supposed to have a number appended to the name. RFC#1 may be "John Doe", but after that come "John Doe 2", "John Doe 3", and so forth, which would put the burden on you to look up the current RFC's number and add that to the notice. Originally I made this an optional parameter: {{subst:ucn|John Doe|2}}, etc. But now, as long as the numbering is standard format (not in parentheses or Roman numerals or anything odd like that), and all the RFCs are still around to be counted, this template will look up the number for you and provide the correct link -- so all you have to provide is the username.   <wipes sweat from brow>   -- Ben 05:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The next step (second phase)

moved down to re-highlight

Right here we go again, deja vu anyone?

OK I've listed all the templates and other stuff that come under the Category:User warning templates on the overview page. This is so we can identify what in the old system needs to be redirected where, what single issue templates need to be created and what needs to be deleted. I've gone through the whole list of warnings and added my comments to what I think should be done. Yes I know there will be a couple of mistakes so don't come storming in as others have done recently, making demands about changes, I've just gone through 400 odd templates, I won't be very sympathetic. What I would like however is you to find the mistakes, I've left another comments column and some of you (thankyou) have already started verifying my work. I'm not asking all of you to do all of them but take a section and double check my work please. I've bullet pointed a couple of ideas below and would appreciate comments and thoughts on them please. Once we have a couple of people in agreement or nothing come out of the woodwork, then we'll start creating or tidying the single issue templates, doing the redirects, deletions etc. If anyone has anything else that jumps out at them, bullet point it and add your moniker. Khukri - 15:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


  • I would like to see the category changed from User warning templates to something like User talk templates, welcome templates, sharedIP etc, aren't warnings, and I would like them included all in one category, WP:UTM doesn't only deal with warnings. K
  • All the various image warnings need an expert eye of someone from that domain. I suggest we prefix them {{im-warning}} much like we have for uw- & db-.K
  • The nothanks warnings need someone from the copyvio mob to simplify, I don't know this area as well as others and I may have over simplified their structure. Again all warning should start copyvioxxxxxx, as no thanks isn't instuitive, no thanks to what, a smack round the head? K
  • I'm not a fan of prefixs for prefix sake. The uw prefix was brought in to avoid conflict with the existing system but if it's not a warning lets not label it uw for anything new, if you want to keep the system call them ut- for other warnings and I'm not sure if putting this on all the single issue templates is worth while. We're going to be doing this change bit by bit, unlike the last time when we unleashed them all in one go, so changing the format on someones {{sign}} template won't be as serious. K
  • Recommended format needs to be designed. Here we go again <sigh> who wants images who doesn't? The header templates like welcome etc, need tidying but the shared IP, AOL, template aren't far off and shouldn't need much work. But again lets get them all looking at least roughly the same, no luminous red boxes or such. Currently alot of the single issues have the info icon, my preference is with, but I know alot of you don't like them, so up to you. K

[edit] IMPORTANT

Guys, a few of you have added some comments to the overview page, I'll leave it a couple more days and if I here nothing else I'll take it as a green light, to create all the templates and put the redirects in place. I think it maybe better in that regards as it actually gives you guys something to get stuck into a mold to your needs. But I would appreciate some feedback. Cheers muchly Khukri 10:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Khukri, it's also rather important that you note the existence of a redirect template, {{r from warning template}}, and its respective category, Category:Redirects from warning template. Not tagging redirect user warning templates with this will create a lot of work. And if the template replacement is going to happen soon, as many people as possible need to be informed about it. Finally, if there's anything related multi-level warnings that I can do, just ask! GracenotesT § 20:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I've got a trip planned back to the UK next week for ten days, so will most probably start shortly after then. If anyone knows much about images on wikipedia there's a shed load of image templates that need to be sorted. Cheers Khukri 22:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Was it decided (or not discussed) to use the "uw" prefix for images, or use "im"? If not discussed, anyone can feel free to weigh in their opinion. GracenotesT § 22:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I would prefer the uw prefix; even though these templates deal with images, they're still warnings of a sort. On another note, would anyone object if I moved/copied the suggested layout for warnings from WP:UW to WP:UWT? That layout seriously neatens up the talk pages and more people should be using it. —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 08:30, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
It's on my list of things to do of merge WP:UW and WP:UTM, but i'd preferred to have done it after the project was wrapped up. But I'm beginning to think it's overkill these two projects, and we bosh everthing straight over to WP:UTM. Khukri 11:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, I get the distinct impression I'm pissing into the wind with my work here. With no real feedback after a month and only a couple of editors having done some corroboration on all my template suggestions I get the feeling there is no interest in harmonising the single issue templates. So with this in mind I vote we wrap up this project, forget about the single issue work, and move everything over to WP:UTM. Of course leaving it in a bst state possible. Cheers Khukri 10:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry if you're feeling unappreciated. I can tell you, personally, that it is quite the opposite. I think you're doing a great job, and I'm not helping because I'm not sure I see where I can help you. I'll look again, though. Sorry about that. --Mdwyer 17:17, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
It's not about being unappreciated, we saw the furore that came after a handful of us did the multi-warning templates, with editors coming in saying how dare we change the existing system without personally telling them. I have some pretty specific idea on how I see the new system evolvoing and I'm quite confident there are quite a few other editors that share my views. But the last thing this project or wikipedia needs is a one man show, that even smacks of it being railroaded through. Hence I need as many view points as possible to corroborate this work, as there will always be that one editor out there who will want to revert it all because they weren't personally involved. Cheers Khukri 17:34, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shared IP Notice

If this is a shared IP address, and you didn't make the edit, please ignore this notice

It seems like a number of patrollers are adding a little footer to the end of every one of their warnings. Could we add this to the warning header, instead? --Mdwyer 17:17, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest taking it over to WT:UTM and maybe add it to the end of all the usual suspects, such as vandalism, test & delete, I wouldn't though add it as a header, as it detracts from the message that follows. Khukri 17:57, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Can a shared IP be used by two computers at once? --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@ 18:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes. All you're seeing is the router or gateway address. Classic example is look what happened recently with Qatar I think it was, seemed like the whole country was behind only one IP. Khukri 18:06, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
The given messages is made from TW, and is only assigned to IP-addresses, not registered users.
 if ( TwinkleConfig.showSharedIPNotice && isIPAddress( wgTitle ) ) {
 switch( QueryString.get( 'type' ) ) {
 case 'vand':
 notice +=  "\n:''If this is a shared [[IP address]], and you didn't make any [[Wikipedia:vandalism|unconstructive]] edits, please ignore this warning '' ";
 break;
 default:
 notice +=  "\n:''If this is a shared [[IP address]], and you didn't make the edit, please ignore this notice'' ";
 break;
 }
 }

→AzaToth 18:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Right, but it doesn't need to be added to every single notice. It needs to be added ONCE per anon ip talkpage. By that same argument, it shouldn't be added to the end of every single warning template. If you want to include this warning, it should at least fit into the template.
{{uw-test1|Article|If this is a shared [[IP address]], and you didn't make the edit, please ignore this notice}}
Another option would be to have a separate s/warning for anon IPs. Or change the default anon IP footer to include text along the lines of, "This may be a shared IP address, and so warnings on this page may not apply to you." --Mdwyer 20:19, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I have some concern that adding a shared IP "out" to every warning could potentially confuse vandals or even suggest we're not serious and won't actually enforce. One header at the top of the Talk page seems more manageable. Since from time to time we verify whether or not various IP addresses are shared, suggest that the header be changable when we actually know more about the IP address involved. Best, --Shirahadasha 00:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I notice that the {{sharedIP}} header already includes text about warnings related to other people. --Mdwyer 01:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I find that using the {{Welcome-anon-vandal}} at the top of the talk page explains everything quite nicely enough without having to add such things to each individual warning. —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 06:59, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:UsernameBlocked-vandal

BigDT (talk • contribs), an admin who participates on WP:RFC/NAME, mentioned there:

New - Optionally, if you block a name that is clearly vandalism or trolling, you can use {{subst:UsernameBlocked-vandal}}.

I'm moving the line off RFC/NAME because that page really isn't for discussing "grossly, blatantly, or obviously inappropriate usernames" -- these should be reported to WP:AIV instead. This is really not an RFC-related template. However, it's worth bringing to the template-messages/user-talk-namespace and WikiProject-user-warnings talk pages, for fitting into the new standardized scheme.

BigDT comments: "The singular thing that I care about is that in some fashion, people who are obviously sockpuppets of banned users, individuals creating trolling usernames, etc, don't receive the standard {{usernameblock}} message that invites them to create a new account. Whether the template is named unbv, uw-name4, whatever, and where the template is listed, I am really not picky one bit." (There was more discussion here.) -- Ben 07:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks good, and is certainly a problem becoming more prevalent. Only suggestion as it is a block would or could we not change the look to be similar to uw-block3? Cheers Khukri 15:35, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion on WP:VPT

Thought you should be aware of the discussion here: Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Parameters for user warning templates.↔NMajdan•talk 19:10, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I was about to post a link :) Thanks for the pointer, Nmajdan. GracenotesT § 19:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
No problem. I responded on the VP section and linked here as well.↔NMajdan•talk 19:15, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Could we have some examples please?

There is a lot of information regarding what templates there are, how to phrase them, etc. But they all seem to assume some basic knowledge of the way templates are used. Perhaps the information is out there and I just didn't see it... But for example, I've just corrected a number of vandal edits (for the first time) and would like to warn the user... I think the user deserves a vandal3 warning (assume bad faith) since the edits were obvious vandalism, insertion of profanity & nonsense words. But it wasn't clear to me what I do with the template. I think it goes on the user's talk page? A couple explicit examples of the most common templates the average editor might want to use would be nice, organized like:

 You see this:
 A proper response is this:
 Placed here:

And my apologies if there is already something like this that I just didn't find. Jeffadams78 17:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

The table on this page shows you what text to include in your message. In this case, you would
 Type this: {{subst:uw-vandalism3}} (you should also probably add your signature with ~~~~)
 or this: {{subst:uw-vandalism3|Woodrow Wilson}} (if you want to specify the page that he vandalized)

on the user's talk page. Then you would end up with this text:

  Please stop. If you continue to vandalise Wikipedia, as you did to Woodrow Wilson, you will be blocked from editing.

and since this is a notice, it is unlikely that he would respond to it (if he did, he would respond on your talk page). Anyways, I'm glad to see such a responsible new contributor, and I hope you enjoy your time here :). --MaskedSheik 00:48, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

You may not have seen this which lists all the template wordings. Khukri 12:24, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


There is also a recommended layout over at WP:UW that includes a Warnings header on the user's Talk page, with subheaders in the form of "Month Year". Each warning then is placed in a numbered lists, with blocks being bullet items. --GargoyleMT 16:44, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks everyone. I guess what I was really missing is a definitive statement that templates are to be placed on the user (that you're warning)'s talk page. That was implied a few places but none of the pages discussing the templates seem to state it directly. Jeffadams78 17:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removing warnings

I apologise if this is not the right place to ask, if so, please direct me to the right place. I have one question, is there a guideline or rule that states if the removal of warning templates from a user's talk page by the user him or herself is allowed or disallowed? I faintly remember having read something like that but I'm unable to find it in the various policy pages. IntinnTalk! 19:29, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Well the current consensus is that people are allowed to remove what they want from their talk page. The templates you are talking about were deleted last Fall. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject user warnings/Archives/2007/01#Removing_warnings if you want more information. -- lucasbfr talk 12:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! IntinnTalk! 12:22, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikibreak

Right I'm going off for a couple of weeks, back to the UK.

I see a few of you are still plugging away at the overview page, which after I thought no-one was interested anymore is quite encouraging. Most of you are aware of the work done during the multi-level warnings, and know how the few of us who implemented the changes work. What I'm suggesting is when I come back, I will attack all of the suggestions on the overview page, in a very short amount of time. Lucas, Gracenotes, Aza, Ben, Will and all the other stalwarts, if you could all just do a handful of corroborating, or add fresh view points that would be greatly appreciated. Anyway traa fer now and speak soon. Khukri 15:32, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How about this

What I think we need is a warning which is given to those who talk in the article, and by that I mean, pretty much the same warning we give to those who use the Talk pages as a chat room but, in this case, in an article page. Ive been reverting many of these lately. What do you think? --James Bond 07:43, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

ok, I created this template, this is just a draft:

Welcome to Wikipedia. Please refrain from engaging in a general discussion of the topic in the article page as you did in {{{1}}}. Instead, use the appropriate talk page. Please remember that talk pages are for discussion related to improving the article, not general discussion about the topic. Please refrain from doing this in the future. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.

feel free to change the wording.--James Bond 04:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

You may be looking for {{uw-chat1}}, {{uw-chat2}}, {{uw-chat3}}, and {{uw-chat4}}. GracenotesT § 05:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, not really. Those warning are intended for those users who use a Talk page as a forum and not to discuss how to improve the article. What I'm talking about is a warning for users who talk in the article page itself: (e.g.: in the Big Mac page, a user edits the page and writes "I love Big Macs, what about you? I always buy the fries as well"). --James Bond 09:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh snap! I just noticed that there is a {{talkinarticle}} template however it only has one level of warning at the moment. Maybe someone should merge that template with these {{uw-cia1}}, {{uw-cia2}}, {{uw-cia3}}, and {{uw-cia4}}.--James Bond 09:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New vandalism warning template

Please see User:SunStar Net/Template:Vandalblock, this is a new one I created that is intended to warn vandals that when their block expires, that vandalism will be taken seriously.
In both examples below, 24 hours is used as an example, though any parameter can be specified.
Here it is, subst'ed for clarity:

You have been blocked for a period of 24 hours for vandalism.
Please edit constructively once your block has expired. Vandalism is not tolerated on Wikipedia.

- the original version.

and here's the version that could be a template (note, it will change, due to transcluding here!)

You have been blocked for a period of 24 hours for vandalism.
Please edit constructively once your block has expired. Vandalism is not tolerated on Wikipedia.

Feel free to give me some feedback on this, if it's accepted as a useful template, I will code some more for you. --sunstar nettalk 14:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Usefulness of icons in warnings: another aspect

I wanted to gush, but first went to look at older discussions. I found a comment saying that icons everywhere weren't going to be helpful. Which was jarring, as that is what I wanted to gush about.

I had just come from placing another warning on a user page where, inspecting to make sure I'd not typed "{uw-test1..." yet again, I finally 'got' the icons! Since it was obvious the source of the multiple graffiti was not a native English speaker, icons suddenly took on a much greater importance. I mean 'non-constructive' and 'reverted' are not beginners' English. But and the rest are quite simple. Thank you! And any chance you could make the icons larger at each successive level? (I didn't go that far back in the discussions. :-) Shenme 06:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I like the icons. It draws attention to each individual warning. I noticed that the old warnings don't have icons anymore and its hard to quickly differentiate the warnings that are posted in succession. -- Mufka (user) (talk) (contribs) 16:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I personally like the icons too, I think they indeed add some clarity (even if a non english speaker won't probably understand what we intend so tell him with a level 1 warning anyway). But I fear that changing the size of the warning when we increment the level might result in a... weird outcome on the pages. But that's just my opinion, I don't recall it being discussed at a point to be honest. -- lucasbfr talk 09:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The new templates

I apologize if this is discussed elsewhere. I have the following questions:

1. Will there be abbreviations for the new UW warnings? Some seem very long.
2. I really like the names of the old warnings because I can type the major ones with one hand (test). Will I still be able to use those names?

Thanks. -- Mufka (user) (talk) (contribs) 16:31, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

1) The more commonly used templates already have shortcuts, if you looks here at {{uw-vandalism1}} you'll see them listed.
2) It's still under discussion at the moment here and WP:UW whether the old template names will redirect to the new templates. But personally I think that unless there are some serious objection, which haven't come forward at the moment, then the redirects will be in place by the end of the month.
Just a note though, please remember the example you have given is a bit of a misnomer. There will be no more test4 as in all reality we cannot be giving final warnings for editing tests and that they have to be called as they are, and this has been replaced by the vandalism series, and the test series are to be reserved for exactly as it says, editors carry out editing test. Cheers Khukri 11:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FAQ

Note: I created an FAQ page. Feel free to improve it. GracenotesT § 16:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Fantastic idea, I think we can not just use it for this project, but also afterwards when we merge WP:UW and WP:UTM in a few weeks (hopefully). Khukri 08:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
So many thanks, it looks great! I took the liberty to remove the Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 January 1#Template:Obscene, I couldn't find the discussion on the page and the deletion log for the template mentions the same discussion than for {{Sobscene}}. (Am I being clear? Sorry if that's not the case) -- lucasbfr talk 09:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Overview - Now time to finish

OK it's time we finished this off, and clear up the overview page. There are a number of single issue templates that need to be created, though most of you have been creating them over the last month or so (thank you), lets try and get any outstanding ones such as images, nor etc finished.

I will leave posts at both the WP:VPR and WP:AN to bring more input to this discussion. There are one or two editors who do not like the new templates primarily because of the icons, as is their right. We have seen though more posts here and on WP:UTM about the redirects and that they should be put in place. The TfD and MfD comments I put on the overview page will have to go through their own review but the redirects don't, so I propose a straw poll below on whether next week I put all the redirects in place. This will be the redirects such as {{test1}} --> {{uw-test1}} and {{test4}} --> {{uw-vandalism4}}.

The last part, once the harmonisation and the single issue templates are complete, I propose to merge WP:UW & WP:UTM. WP:UW has served well to get through the uw- phase of the project but once the harmonisation is completed IMHO it makes no sense to have two projects discussing the layout of these templates, and responding to editors queries. We are already seeing duplicate posts appearing in both projects, and I feel this only adds to the confusion and that there should be a one stop shop for all template issues. I've added another poll below, and I will leave a message on all editors talk pages who are listed as active or interested in this project.

As we did with the multi level warnings, if you can think of anywhere else to spam this out to please feel free. Cheers Khukri 16:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added it to {{cent}}. --ais523 10:35, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Done WP:VPR & WP:AN, would someone mind spamming the admin IRC channel a couple of times over the next couple of days please. Khukri 12:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
I suggest we all make sure we consider the full extent of the project's purpose:
To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject user warnings: edit · history · watch · refresh
  • First phase (Multi level templates)
    • Bring all template pages on Overview page to For review status. Done
    • Migrate templates to individual pages then decide go live date. Done
    • Publicity campaign for project, to make users aware of impending changes.
    • Create new WP:UTM page, and bring the page under control of this project.
    • Update documentation to reflect all changes and implementation procedure.
  • Second phase (Single level templates)
    • Identify all UW templates and make sure they are included in Cat:User warning templates
    • Create single level warning overview page.

Purge this page
Priority 4
Have we fulfilled all these goals? Could we perfect or improve upon them? Did we miss something out in that list? —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 19:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redirects strawpoll (closes 20th March) CLOSED

Q. Do you agree in principle to the redirects laid out on the overview page and that they can be applied once this poll has finished. This poll is about redirecting the old templates in general, for any specific template issues or comments leave them on the overview page.

Closed We will not do the re-directs as per concerns listed below. Khukri 23:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Support

  1. Khukri 16:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  2. GracenotesT § 16:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  3. Geniac 17:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  4. -- lucasbfr talk 19:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC) (yeah I'm almost not dead ;))
  5. Yes. But we should probably hold this on WP:TUSER's talk page. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@ 22:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
    I left a post there about this discussion, will do the others I mentioned above in the morning. Khukri 22:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
    I suggest that we hold the actual poll for redirects at WP:VPR. GracenotesT § 01:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    I'd prefer see the discussion remained here mainly for future posterity, and not lost amongst the VPR archives. If someone at somepoint wishes to trace the reasoning behind why things were done in this project it's better to keep the record here (or merged with WP:UTM), and keep all info together. We don't habitually look through the VPR archives for information, and I feel this strawpoll is quite important that it stays here. Why I didn't again put this on WP:UTM is that the harmonisation program was carried out by WP:UW again trying to contact all 'n sundry leaving messages to visit here for further information. I don't want WP:UTM to become bogged down with discussions on symantics for any new templates or layouts. I've just got into work, I'll hold off putting a post on VPR for a little while if you are still sure the strawpoll should be moved there, then no probs I'll do it later on. Cheers Khukri 08:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    Actually, the VPR archives are blanked after a certain length of time (although the proposals are still in its history). --ais523 10:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  6. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-14 10:42Z. I haven't examined all the specific mappings but I agree in principle. Also the WP pages currently marked "MfD - obsolete" don't need to be actually deleted - just redirect them to the appropriate project page. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-14 10:42Z
  7. I think no harm can come from redirecting the old templates to the new ones. →AzaToth 12:38, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  8. Either way seems boilerplate to me, with or without the icon, and standardization is important, so support in principle. –Pomte 22:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
  9. mrholybrain's talk 13:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
  10. WjBscribe 06:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  11. Cavenbatalk to me 10:58, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  12. JoeSmack Talk 12:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  13. Martinp23 12:56, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  14. ShakingSpirittalk 14:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  15. V60 VTalk · VDemolitions 15:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  16. Looks like a step forward. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 16:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  17. --Shirahadasha 17:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  18. Strong support, since it's the next natural step in the process of unification of warning templates. The redirects will help people still used to the old ones move on to the new set without causing too much confusion (of course, everything that's new causes anxiety, but that's not a reason to hold off progress). Secondly, while some people may not like the new templates, this argument can be reversed, because just as many might find the old ones ugly (and they are, more often than not poorly formatted - personally, I like the new ones a lot more). Миша13 18:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    Currently, people have a choice. Only one format is being taken away, so it's hardly fair to reverse the argument.
    I agree that we'd be better off with a single set of warning templates, but I don't believe that consensus for the new design has been established outside of the project through which they were created. —David Levy 18:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  19. Glad to see the direction this seems to be going in. --FaerieInGrey 18:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  20. Support, we need a single, consistent system. -- Renesis (talk) 23:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Oppose Removing my opposition here; see the thread for details Sorry about this, but I don't like the new warnings at all. So far, people who disagree with the uw-style warnings have been free to just ignore WP:UW and use {{subst:test}} et al without problems, but you're kind of forcing the issue here. Because the style of warnings is something that you're unlikely to please everyone with, why not just leave two separate systems so that different people can use whichever system they think works better? (Although I may have answered my own question with this helpme answer, as trying to explain two separate systems is a bit longwinded and confusing.) As a record of why I don't like the new warnings (which is mildly irrelevant to this straw poll), they're too obviously boilerplate and don't carry even the impression of being hand-crafted. I agree that obviously boilerplate warnings are useful sometimes, but I suspect that forcing everyone to use that style will merely slightly reduce the usefulness of warnings in reducing vandalism (compare {{subst:uw-npov1}}, {{subst:welcomenpov}} (how does that fit in the WP:UW scheme?), and {{subst:NPOV0}} for an example of different levels of formality; the first is obviously boilerplate, the second is reasonably obviously boilerplate but friendlier and more informative, and the third is more informal and can be worked into other text). There are also some technical issues with {{subst:uw-test1}} et al at the moment, but I agree that that's irrelevant to this poll. --ais523 10:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

That's a good point about avoiding being too boilerplate-y. Perhaps we can harmonize the templates to a level of formality acceptable to all? —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-14 10:39Z
What about having a parameter so that people like me could remove the icon by typing something like '|icon=' at the end of the template? It would simply be a matter of typing {{{icon|(image code here)}}} around each image, and would probably be enough to persuade me to use the new templates. (This coding would leave residual code in the page, unfortunately, but that's a technical problem which doesn't have relevance to this debate.) --ais523 09:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
OK let me know the exact code and what would be required to switch it off and I'll bosh through the templates and modifiy the temapltesnotices. Cheers Khukri 10:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
In order to prevent residual code if subst=subst: is used, try this coding for the icon: {{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{icon|y}}}|[[Image:Information.svg|25px|left]]}} (obviously changing the icon for the higher-level warnings). This seems to work as previously unless |icon= is given as a parameter, in which case the icon disappears. --ais523 12:50, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
And it's done, I used the '|icon=' as you first mentioned. Have a look through please and let me know if that's OK. Cheers Khukri 13:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I personally don't like the idea of removing the icons (I think we lose some consistency between the warnings) but well if you think that's necessary... :) -- lucasbfr talk 15:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I also don't like removing the icons, but I'm not really sure how this new coding works. Are icons included or excluded by default? -- Satori Son 15:45, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I wasn't clear, the icons should be on by default and typing |icon= removes the icon. Though I'm not a programming guru and could have balls'd it up. I've run a couple of test and looks OK but if you find a scrfew up let me know. Khukri 15:55, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Looks fine, thanks! To be clear, the icons will still be included unless the person using the template deliberately turns them off. --ais523 17:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Good job. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-16 07:27Z
The welcome templates aren't at the moment covered by this project as they are not warnings per se, but it hasn't been discussed in the past that they get included along with the shared IP templates etc, as a form single issue templates/header. Khukri 10:44, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


  1. Strongly oppose getting rid of the old ones, I find them far more descriptive than the new ones and therefore use them a lot. Incidentally, the post on WP:AN which directed me to this straw poll was incorrect. These warnings are not the most commonly used ones, in fact I hardly ever see them (admin dealing with WP:AIV). ViridaeTalk 12:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC) Just had a look at them again, either I am going made or they have changed since I last saw them. However I still oppose redirecting the old ones untill you have created some 5th level warnings (ie block notices) for the individual offences, ie vandalism etc. The current block notices are so ambiguous as to the offences you have committed. ViridaeTalk 12:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    • There is method in the madness honestly. The thought process that went into the current set of block warnings, is that an editor would normally have received, one maybe more warnings directly prior to the blocking, and that there was no need to reiterate the offence. But knowing that one size does not necessarily fit all, the extra parser was added to allow additional text and clarification of the block if it was deemed necessary. Khukri 12:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Yeah had thought of that, however i would much prefer it if the 5th level warnings either stayed as they are (ie Template:TlTest5 and were not redirected or you created some 5th level templates for each offence. it would seriously improve the system - I realise the extra parameters in the block notices are there for specifics (and they are useful) but I would still like some block notices for each offence. I do want to specify exactly why they have been blocked int he block noticed but when running through a backlogged WP:AIV I don't want to have to type any more characters than I have to. ViridaeTalk 01:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
        • We can always create a single level warning for types of blocks. I think we already have one for spam block. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@ 01:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
      • OK I've added {{uw-vblock}} & {{uw-dblock}} to go with {{uw-sblock}}. Anyothers? Khukri 09:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
  2. All I know is that I hate typing "uw-" in front of all of my warnings. Would the redirects let me stop typing those additional three characters, which my fingers just don't seem to like to combine in one attempt? --Bossi (talk ;; contribs) 22:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    As a shameless plug, I could suggest you try the warning-part of WP:TW →AzaToth 22:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    I'd have thought that if you didn't like the UW prefix then you wouldn't have opposed the re-directs, as it would make you life easier. Khukri 22:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    Then the much more likely situation is that I have been completely and utterly confused by what is going on with this project. Actually, I somewhat suspected that was the issue all along :P --Bossi (talk ;; contribs) 03:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
  3. I oppose deleting the old templates, I like them and use them. Nardman1 22:43, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
    Is there any particular reason why you don't like the new ones? GracenotesT § 03:30, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
    I'm sorry if I'm being too confrontational. However, if there's a reason for you not liking the new ones besides fear of changing a comfortable, yet complex and hard-to-learn system, please say so. GracenotesT § 04:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
    We are not deleting them, we're redirecting them, so the name you currently use will give you the new improved all singing all dancing templates. Khukri 08:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
  4. Sorry, but I must oppose the proposed change. The first/second-level icon looks terrible (being one of those SVGs that scales very poorly for some reason) and makes the templates appear far more impersonal than they need to. The new parameter to remove it is insufficient, as most editors using the {{test}} series won't be aware of the option (or want to type the additional text if they learn of its existence).
    In fact, most probably aren't aware of this straw poll. I realize that notices have been posted, but those are easy to overlook. I did, and I only found this straw poll when I happened to see a series of pointers to the other straw poll posted by Khukri to several user talk pages on my watchlist.
    Please note that of the fifteen "support" voters, only three (Pomte, Mrholybrain, and WJBscribe) lack prior involvement in this project. Of the other twelve, eleven (all except Martinp23) have their usernames listed on the adjoining project page. Therefore, this is not a valid cross-section of the community.
    It was noted above that no TfD discussion is required to create a redirect. That's true, but none is required to revert one back either. It is, however, poor form to take over protected templates without establishing consensus via a formal process.
    So while I'm certain that all of this is being carried out in good faith, I'll point out that this straw poll (like all straw polls) is entirely non-binding.
    I shall withdraw my personal opposition (while reserving the right to act on the opinions of those unable to edit the templates) if the icon is removed or hidden by default ("icon=" to add it). —David Levy 15:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    I suggested above that we hold the discussion on the proposals village pump... would you support that? (Perhaps a subpage might be better, to have the discussion more easily accessible in the future.) I should also comment that some people listed on the project page are not really that active—some of them were imperative in creating the old test1-test2-test-test4-test5 system, but not as active in creating the uw- system. Others just listed themselves because they support the uw- objectives that the project has, that's all, so it's no surprise that they supported them here. I personally agree that this should be non-binding, however... GracenotesT § 16:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    I reposted a message about this strawpoll on VPR & AN and contacted all the WP:UW members this morning. But I'm beginning to agree with you about moving it to VPR, though I think no matter where we have the strawpoll, unless we put it on the front page there will always be someone who wasn't informed, and therefore they feel will make this strawpoll invalid. By all means cut & paste it, but may I suggest leaving the header, as this where I've told everyone to come. Khukri 17:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    Given the fact that the objective is to redirect protected templates (which most users cannot edit), I believe that WP:TFD is the proper discussion venue (despite the fact that outright deletion is not under consideration). That's the forum in which people interested in following proposals to deprecate templates (including those without ties to the user warning project) expect to find such debates.
    And no, I'm not surprised that the individuals in question would cast "support" votes. My point is that most of the straw poll's participants previously expressed an interest in furthering the project (and likely added it to their watchlists), so the results are highly skewed and not representative of the community as a whole. Additionally, many have not commented on the icon, so they might only be supporting the unification/nomenclature itself (which I support as well) and not any specific design. —David Levy 18:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    I'm up for putting wherever will give this strawpoll the largest audience. Unfortunately I think putting this strawpoll at WP:TfD will not give it greater publicity in comparison to here or VPR as there is a small but dedicated core there. Average joe bloggs visits there less than he will any other forum already mentioned. I personally believe where this strawpoll is held is irrelevant, so long as all the relevant communites (within reason) are informed. As you have seen I have posted this twice at both and WP:AN and WP:VPR (which I believe is the correct forum), It's on centralized discussion, the intial changes including the icons were in the signpost as well as various other noticeboards. Any other locations more the merrier. Khukri 19:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    You keep using the term "strawpoll." I'm saying that a straw poll (no matter how well publicized) is insufficient.
    The problem isn't that too few people are being informed. It's that the right people aren't being informed. Almost everyone participating in this debate is involved in the user warning project. This is because most of the individuals seeing the notices have little or no interest.
    The "right" people are the ones likely to discuss this even if they lack prior involvement. This describes the denizens of TfD. There's no reason why others must be excluded (and such a TfD debate certainly can be advertised elsewhere), but you're ignoring the users most likely to care.
    Of course, we may be getting ahead of ourselves. There really are two separate issues here, and you've combined them into a single all-or-nothing proposition. As I noted, I personally support the proposed unification/nomenclature, but I oppose the specific design of the new first/second-level templates (for which no consensus has been established outside of the user warnings project). Unfortunately, you're offering people the choice of either adopting the new design or retaining a redundant set of templates. This should not be a package deal, and it's likely that much of the above support has nothing to do with the icon.
    The templates' format should be determined first (with the participation of users not affiliated with the user warnings project). If there is no clear consensus regarding the templates' visual appearance, we should default to the status quo. Then the proposed unification should be addressed. —David Levy 20:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    I hope you mean "not counting towards consensus", rather not "not allowed to participate". GracenotesT § 22:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    Sorry, my wording was unintentionally ambiguous. By "with the participation of users not affiliated with the user warnings project," I didn't mean "without the participation of users affiliated with the user warnings project." I meant "in addition to."
    And no, I don't even mean "not counting towards consensus." While systematic biases should be taken into account, there's no valid reason to disregard the input of any good-faith contributor. —David Levy 23:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    Thank you for clarifying. I was a bit dubious of the "not counting towards consensus" item myself. Cheers, GracenotesT § 23:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  5. Although I use the uw-blah templates, I can see why some might prefer the older ones. It is a good idea to have some standards, but variety is not bad. ffm ✎talk 15:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  6. Quite frankly, I don't see the point of this. Why should we delete templates people use just because we have newer, fancier templates? Just so vandals all receive the same warnings? People are allowed by policy to use any warnings they want, so that is no reason at all. I don't use the old ones, but as long as there are enough people who do to justify their existence they should stay.--Dycedarg ж 19:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  7. Oppose The new templates are fine, but they're not sufficient for everyone. It's easy to suggest that we just use TW or a similar program-- I don't always have access to a browser that supports those scripts. Leave them be. You made the new templates, nobody is stopping you from using them and encouraging their use. alphachimp 22:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  8. Oppose, as the removal of several combinations (such as the {{test2}}, which is worded completely differently and is watered down to the point it is IMO useless) and the way the other templates are worded just make me dislike them. I still see no overall purpose or need for standardarization, by the way. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 23:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Neutral

  1. I still don't like the new templates, but I can't convince myself to stand in the way of this. So neutral. -Amarkov moo! 04:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Projects merge strawpoll (closes 20th March)

Q. Do you agree that once all the issues identified on the overview page have been resolved, that the "WikiProject user warnings WP:UW" can be merged with "Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace WP:UTM"?

Closed as per above strawpoll. Khukri 23:53, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Support

  1. Khukri 16:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  2. Geniac 17:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  3. -- lucasbfr talk 19:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  4. As long as all WP:UW project pages remain intact. (Could Khukri clarify?) GracenotesT § 20:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
    Without a doubt. The main page I forsee as becoming part of an all encompassing instructions manual including your FAQ. And the talkpages I will integrate in the same way I did when I merged WP:UW and WP:UWLS. Khukri 21:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  5. There will be no huge need for separate pages when we finish the single user pages, so this seems good.--TeckWiz ParlateContribs@ 22:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  6. --Shirahadasha 02:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  7. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-14 10:36Z
  8. →AzaToth 12:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  9. Makes sense. -- Satori Son 03:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
  10. Cavenbatalk to me 10:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  11. JoeSmack Talk 12:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  12. ShakingSpirittalk 14:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  13. - Penwhale | Blast him / Follow his steps 14:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  14. V60 VTalk · VDemolitions 15:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  15. Yes, but as long as WP:UW comes out on top. ffm ✎talk 15:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Once the second phase (single issue templates) have been completed, the whole system will be in normal operations and there will no longer be a project per se. As most other template pages are based or are subpages of WP:TM it would make sense IMHO to have the pages based there. However as already has been mentioned, the documentation, guides, history etc, will become part of an all encompassing FAQ for User page templates, so if to come out on top means with regards to the documentation then have no fear. Khukri 16:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

[edit] Template:uw-legal1, Template:uw-legal2, Template:uw-legal3

I nominated these for deletion, in order to replace them with a single issue template, {{uw-legal}}. Please come by and voice your opinion there :) -- lucasbfr talk 09:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] UTM-wide changes

May I suggest three changes to all templates:

  1. Adding the diff parameter right after the sentence that has a latent link to the first article. For example, change {{uw-test2}} from
    ...test edits in Wikipedia articles{{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{1|}}}|, such as those you made to [[:{{{1}}}]],}} even if your ultimate intention is to revert them. If you would...
    to
    ...test edits in Wikipedia articles{{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{1|}}}|, such as those you made to [[:{{{1}}}]],}} even if your ultimate intention is to revert them. {{{{{subst}}}#if:{{{diff|}}}|([{{{diff}}} diff])}} If you would...
  2. Have an #ifexist parameter for all templates, except for those involving article creation. For example,
    ...test edits in Wikipedia articles{{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{1|}}}|, such as those you made to [[:{{{1}}}]],}} even if your ultimate intention is to revert them. If you would...
    to
    ...test edits in Wikipedia articles{{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{1|}}}|, such as those you made to {{{{{subst|}}}#ifexist:{{{1}}}|[[:{{{1}}}]]|{{{1}}}}},}} even if your ultimate intention is to revert them. If you would...
    Except that I would implement 1 and 2 in the same edit. This will allow people to list pages. For example, "1=foo and bar". This was suggested a while ago on the village pump, and makes sense to me.
  3. Standardize the <-- --> comments at the end of each template. Some say "{{uw-whatever}}", others say "Template:Uw-whatever". I would suggest the latter, since it will help newbies find the template quicker (and hopefully not vandalize it).
  4. This is not likely to happen, but change the parameter of "subst" to "s". I often don't type out "subst=subst:" since it's too long, but "s=subst:", maybe. Of course, this will have to be coordinated with AzaToth's twinkle warning system.

I would like to do this soon, although I'm in no hurry. The templates may get complicated, and {{templatesnotice}} will have to be updated, but at at least I'm fine with that... GracenotesT § 19:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for a new template

Would it be a good idea to create a template that encourages people who upload freely-licensed materials to Wikipedia instead of the Commons (some who do it quite often) to upload them to the Commons instead? I am starting to tire of having to delete duplicate images here that are duplicated on the Commons, and having to clean up after the MoveToCommons assistant, which just copies the license used here which often causes unintentional plagiarism and other bad licensing (e.g. Image:Foo by User:Alice, which is put under the GFDL with disclaimers here using {{GFDL-self}} is uploaded to the Commons with the same tag by User:Bob, but that tag on the Commons has no disclaimers, so it violates the GFDL by removing the disclaimers and also leads to unintentional plagiarism by crediting Bob, when the correct tag to use there would have been {{GFDL-user-en|Alice}}, which states that Alice created the image and also preserves the disclaimers. I am quite busy, so I do not have the time to think up the correct words for this template. Jesse Viviano 22:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Anyways, if I was not busy, I would still not want to write this out because I am getting annoyed at these people, so I am afraid that I would write the template in the wrong tone. Jesse Viviano 23:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
This doesn't seem like a bad idea, and I think I know enough about commons images to take care of this. A single-level notice, I think it should be... perhaps called "uw-freeimage". GracenotesT § 22:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Could I suggest starting it with 'im-' ? if you look at the overview page, there's quite a few image related warnings that require the attention of someone who knows the intricacies of the image area on wikipedia. Khukri 22:58, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] So where to now?

OK I'm stumped, I've been wracking my brains most of last night trying to think of a way round this. From above we can see alot of editors prefer the new warnings, icons, layout, etc and some wish to keep the status quo, disliking the icons, wording or both. Unfortunately these two positions, it seems to me, are diametrically opposed and with the numbers in both camps we have to heed both camps equally. If we change WP:UTM to include all the old templates, then we are in effect leaving it in a worse state than when we started with more ambiguity through the warnings and duplication rife, though some of you may call this having more options to hand. I can't see a way to meet the goals of this project, creating a harmonised/standardised system and maintain an existing system at the same time. User:David Levy suggested a two phase approach of re-investigating the layout including icons, then going for the redirects. It certainly has it's merits but I think in another 6 months we'll still find ourselves in the same position with editors coming in arguing they weren't adequately informed and object to the work being done. I personally think we have spammed/communicated through the various channels the changes to the community, but it's clear others disagree. I've seen recently the templates being referred to as wank in one edit summary, a glorified e-card and useless to name a few contructive criticisms from established editors. A couple of editors have mentioned the don't see the point in having a standardised system and that variety is good. Defeats the purpose of this project really? I thought that we could just continue on regardless, not carrying out the redirects & leaving the old system intact but continue on with the uw- warnings. But this is pointless, Wikipedia is based on concensus and to have a two tier system along the lines of "I prefer mine to templates to yours, so ner ner" goes IMO completely against this and is devisive to say the least. So where to now? I've spent 6 months on this project and for the first time I have no idea what to do next, so I'm going to sit back & help out with the maintenance at WP:UTM for a bit, but I think the project really needs some new ideas or a fresh approach.

No matter what is done you can't please all of the people all of the time. Cheers Khukri 08:55, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

No, there’s no way to please everyone. A minor suggestion, though: {{uw-vandalism2}} seems to be a bit watered-down to people. Perhaps we can bend our no-faith guidelines to make it more like {{test2}}? When there is clear consensus, by the way, we generally do supermajority. GracenotesT § 13:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
And by the way, if we were to do a TFD, we should probably have to have a list of objections at the top, and politely mandate people to read it before commenting, to avoid misconceptions (there are many). GracenotesT § 14:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Yea I had a look at both {{uw-vandalism2}}, {{uw-test2}} & {{test2}} after one of the comments above and the uw- warnings do seem a bit anaemic in comparison. You wanna do it or shall I?
On the supermajority the problem is though I don't think we'd ever convince anyone there is a clear concensus. And if we follow David's idea of re-discussing the whole shooting match, in 6 months I think we'll be in the same position as there will be another forum, quorum or noticeboard that should have been informed. Cheers Khukri 15:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
It's a bit like trying to herd cats, isn't it? My suggestion is to keep trying to build as a good a comprehensive set of new warning templates as possible at UTM. I think we are getting pretty close. As for the old templates, let's redirect them if there is a solid rationale and no clear objection - people can always undo the redirection if objections surface. Otherwise, just leave the old templates be, and let people who like them use them. If they are not on UTM, they will gradually die off. I'm already seeing less and less of the older warnings. (BTW, please chime in at WT:UTM if you have thoughts on the changes I made/propose to the level 2s).--Kubigula (talk) 04:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD debate categorization

Is there any standard template message to gently remind people to categorize the AfD debates they have created? I looked but couldn't find one. If none exists, should one be created or is that too nit-picky? Alternately, we could modify Template:REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD to produce a warning when a debate is not categorized. —dgiestc 16:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I had a quick look through here but couldn't find anything. There is though somewhere but not under this category a template used for not correctly categorising the speedy deletes. If someone can find that I'll make one up for you no problems or if not I'll have a crack at it later on this evening. Khukri 16:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, no need, I'm quite handy with templates so I might cook up one myself. But for now I'm examining how hard it would be to modify the AFD template to automatically generate the warning. —dgiestc 16:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Stop hand"

As if one version of this incredibly ugly image wasn't enough, there are now two of them in use. The version on {{Template:uw-bv}} (Image:Stop hand.svg) is different to the one on {{Template:uw-vandalism4}} (Image:Stop.png). I thought the whole point of these new templates was standardization. Please fix this. Thanks – Qxz 17:37, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Changed all I could see to Image:Stop hand.svg, since that's the one we agreed on a long time ago if I'm correct. (I agree it is ugly though ^^) -- lucasbfr talk 18:03, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I preferred the (Image:Stop.png) because it looks a bit better than the ugly SVG image. Although now it deems that most people want all the templates to look the same so it'll stay that way. If somebody can update the (Image:Stop hand.svg icon so it looks better than go ahead. Thats all. -- Hdt83 | Talk 23:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
When you say "If somebody can update the Image:Stop hand.svg icon so it looks better than go ahead", would changing them all to Image:Stop.png count as changing it so it looks better, or not? I ask only because that's what's likely to happen; I'm certainly not going to do it – Qxz 00:44, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Maybe the ugly stop hand will discourage potential vandals so they can avoid having that marring their talk pages. Of course, that might just be a pipe dream... --Valley2city₪‽ 15:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Unless we're actually using the image to physically beat them over the head (something I'm all for, by the way), I don't think so. ;) EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed user pages from categories

I removed user pages from Category:User warning templates, Category:User block templates and Category:User indefinitely blocked templates. This included both accidentally included user talk pages plus all of the warning templates in user space. During this I also fixed Template:Replaceable short which had not used <noinclude></noinclude> around the category. —Doug Bell talk 18:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I now also removed the user pages from Category:User talk header templates. —Doug Bell talk 19:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My thoughts on this project

I think it should stay, as new user warnings will be needed at some point in the future, and this is a useful project for people who want to learn how to create and edit templates.

Also, I'm not sure about the ugly "X" sign in {{indefblockeduser}} that's used on a lot of the uw- templates. I preferred the old Image:Octagon-warning.svg to be honest.

Apologies if some of my opinions seem controversial, I am giving honest feedback here. --sunstar nettalk 19:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your feedback :) I think most of our icons don't have the "white inner shading". Some have. (I spotted {{Uw-block2}} and {{Uw-block3}}, when {{Uw-block1}} doesn't have it. I think we might have some kind of consistency problem here :). Guys, which one do you prefer? (I personally prefer the old fashioned ones) -- lucasbfr talk 19:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
See two sections up from this one, where I raised the exact same point about the other ugly octagon icon. Now they both have shiny and non-shiny versions that are being inconsistently used – Qxz 00:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How fast is too fast?

Hi. Sorry if this query might belong somewhere else? How fast is too fast to progress through the UW templates? e.g. is it wrong to go from {{uw-vandalism1}} up to {{uw-vandalism3}} in the course of a few minutes or an hour if a user keeps repeating the vandalism? Can we clarify this kind of usage question somewhere? I couldn't seem to find an answer, I don't know if this project page is the right place for it? Thanks. jhawkinson 01:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that the level of the warning should be up to the user to decide. I personally start at around (uw2) but if the vandalism was severe or was intentional I might go straight to (uw3) for the first warning. Another template for blatant, obvious severe vandalism is the {{subst:uw-bv}}. Hope this helps! -- Hdt83 Chat 01:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
There probably should be some guidance on the main WP:UTM page; however, I think the general idea is that there should be a fair amount of discretion left to the editor. Personally, I follow level one to level two if there has only been one additional vandalistic edit or if bad faith is not absolutely clear. If there have been many vandalistic edits in a short period of time, or if the type of vandalism is particularly nasty (racism, graphic sex etc), then I skip level 2.--Kubigula (talk) 01:55, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I think there should be a certain amount of discretion. For rapid, blatant vandalism, particularly if prolific, I usually not only skip level 2 but progress through 3 and 4 fairly rapidly. Where the edits are at all arguable, or the user does only a single act and then stops at least temporarily, I progress in regular order. My view is that for blatant vandals -- vandals who are too busy trashing things to bother to read their messages -- the opportunity to be warned is all that is necessary and Wikipedia doessn't have to put the encyclopedia in jeapardy just because vandals may choose not to pay attention to their warnings. Best, --Shirahadasha 03:31, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear! I didn't at all mean skipping levels, but merely if an editor adds blatant vandalism, I revert and add uw1, and then they immediately repeat the same or similar vandalism, should I wait some period of time (5 minutes, an hour, a day) before moving up to uw2? Or is valdalism/uw1/repeat vandalism/uw2/repeat vandalism/uw3/repeat vandalism/uw4 OK all in the course of, say, an hour? jhawkinson 04:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely, yes. Every time the offending person makes a malicious edit, you escalate the warnings. So if a person made a edit, you revert, and then they make another edit, you would immediatly move from uw-1 to uw2 and so on until uw-4 where you report them to AIV. Of course, you can skip levels if the vandalism was severe or blatant. Hopefully this answers your question. -- Hdt83 Chat 04:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, crystal clear! Perhaps someone wants to take a stab at making this clearer in the documentation? If not, I guess I'll give it a shot tomorrow. OK, please see Wikipedia:WikiProject_user_warnings/Help:Introduction#Rate of warnings. Comments welcome. jhawkinson 04:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Do Warnings show up on anonymous IPs?

The question has just been asked above. The problem is that the orange You have new messages bar does not show up on a school IP. I know this because I saw somebody vandalizing while in the library and posted a message to him but it doesn't show up. Any thoughts why? -- Hdt83 Chat 01:45, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I mean whats the point of placing warnings if they don't even notify the user???? -- Hdt83 Chat 00:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
In every test that I've done, the warnings show up as they should. One thing that could be possible is that if you, while logged in, leave a warning on an anon IP but you are also on the ip but just logged in, your viewing of the page after leaving the warning might prevent the other user from seeing the notice. Also, another user somewhere in the school could also be online and have seen the message indicator. -- Mufka (user) (talk) (contribs) 01:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
The problem is that the yellow banner only shows up until you visit the talk page. That means that if the IP is shared, the banner might show up on an other computer and the vandal might never see it if the other user is fast to check his messages. -- lucasbfr talk 08:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I had considred the fact that this was a school IP but on another computer at a friend's house, the New Messages bar does not show up when a warning is placed on his IP talk page. I think that something is wrong with the message bar so could someone test it out their self and look at the code for it? -- Hdt83 Chat 23:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
After a test of IP addresses I concluded that there was a bug with the New Messages Bar that is causing the bar to either not show up or show up and becomes stuck. See [1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hdt83 (talk • contribs) 22:34, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Proposal

Hello Wikipeidians. I have made a proposal that would take care of the userbos issues and the general clutter of the Template namespace. Please see it here and make comments conserning it. Thank you for your time. SadanYagci 14:49, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Have commented there Khukri 10:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../w/i/k/Wikipedia_talk%7EWikiProject_user_warnings_714a.html"

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