Talk:Jimmy Wales

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If you need to contact Jimbo about something, please do so at User talk:Jimbo Wales, not here. As Jimbo himself explains...

People who are trying to leave messages for me will likely be more satisfied if they leave messages on my user talk page than if they leave them here. This is the talk page for the article about me, not a place to talk to me. I rarely read this. --Jimbo Wales 06:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

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Jimmy Wales has been listed as a good article under the good-article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a review.

Article Milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 15, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
July 5, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
October 10, 2006	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
October 17, 2006	Good article review	Kept
Current Status: Good article (biz people)

Jimmy Wales is either included in the Wikipedia CD Selection or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version (the project page is at WPCD Selection). Please maintain high quality standards, and if possible stick to GFDL images. However, if you can improve the article, please do so!

This article contains biographical material about a person who is or has been a Wikipedia contributor. Wikipedia policies are in place to ensure that the subject of such material does not exert undue influence over its content. However, the nature of Wikipedia is such that, as with all its articles, misleading material may be present.

Readers are encouraged to review Wikipedia:Autobiography for information concerning autobiographical articles on Wikipedia.

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.

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This article has been rated as GA-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] See comments

An individual covered in this article, Jimmy Wales, has edited Wikipedia as
Jimbo Wales (talk • contribs).

The spoken word version of this article is part of WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia, an attempt to produce recordings of Wikipedia articles. To participate, visit the project page.

Xoloz has pledged a bounty of $20 in donation to the Wikimedia Foundation contingent on Jimmy Wales's improvement to featured status. Please check out the Wikipedia Bounty Board for more information on how you can help collect for Wikipedia!

Bottesini has pledged a bounty of $15 in donation to the Wikimedia Foundation contingent on Jimmy Wales's improvement to featured status. Please check out the Wikipedia Bounty Board for more information on how you can help collect for Wikipedia!

Just H has pledged a bounty of 2¢ in donation to the Wikimedia Foundation contingent on Jimmy Wales's improvement to featured status. Please check out the Wikipedia Bounty Board for more information on how you can help collect for Wikipedia!

Archives September 2004 – March 2006 April 2006 – June 2006 July 2006 - September 2006 September 2006 - October 2006 October 2006 - December 2006 December 2006 - January 2007

[edit] Lead

It should be mentioned in the introduction that he is the founder of Wikipedia as that is his main claim to fame. --thedemonhog 00:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Done, albeit in a limited way to avoid POV. -- Zanimum 20:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Birthdate removed

I removed the birtdate per discussion above. I notice that there was a newspaper source on one instance, and the paper does indeed give a birthdate, but it does not mention a source for that. For all we know, the paper used this article as a source for that date. Since the subject obviously does not want his birtdate in the article, I removed it. Crockspot 18:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The Times of London not being considered an acceptable source == LOL. Quatloo 02:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Normally, it would be, but they do not state where they got the date, and there are no other sources to be found, so I highly suspect they got it off of one wiki or another. Since this is a BLP article, the subject is resistant, and the information from the Times cannot be verified independently, it shouldn't be used. Crockspot 16:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

In any case BLP specifies that we should generally remove it if the person complains anyway 203.109.240.93 16:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I readded it without realizing it had been discussed. I'll go remove it again. —An gr 12:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

It's sitting in the article again. I'm not going to remove it, because this whole thing is ridiculous. Jimbo needs to step up and state clearly what he wants. He should also apologize for the inexplicable contradiction and for deleting the diff, which has confused and obscured the situation. Everyking 10:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

The diff may be gone but the page still exists where he says what his birthday is. BrianH123 01:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goodness

"Using a wiki to create an encyclopedia was publicly proposed by Larry Sanger on January 10, 2001,[8], and the two became two of the founders of what would become Wikipedia[9][10]"

Well, gee, if there could be a worst possible version of this, I suppose that would be it. To my knowledge, no one has ever argued that there were MORE than two founders, unless we count my noting that if Larry is to be considered a co-founder then we might as well consider dozens of people co-founders.--Jimbo Wales 18:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion the sorry state of this article (and it is in a sorry state) is to some degree due to Jimbo Wales. I won't touch this article due to his heavy hand. Perhaps others feel likewise. 4.250.177.172 21:20, 30 January 2007 (UTC) User talk:WAS 4.250

Oh, come on guys. You just need to learn how to navigate the waters and learn by experience what to leave in and what to leave out:

It was Wales' company and money and stuff. He was in charge and he did the authorizing.
No need to state how Nupedia ended. Just let it trail off and if the reader is so interested, they can go find out on Nupedia's page what happened to that project.
Sanger independently thought of the idea and he got the idea to the "public" first and he was involved for the first critical year.
Wales installed the wiki software on the first server and he was involved in that first year, but let's avoid trying to assigning percentages of credit.
Let's just avoid the whole founder/co-founder mess. It is just a word.
Sanger "resigned from the leadership of Wikipedia".

See how that works? Be terse. Heck, be vague if you are going to get bogged down in controversy. Just state the facts that we know with certainty. No hurt feelings: strictly business and good ol' volunteerism.--70.231.137.18 18:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Obligatory pointer to some facts in the archives: http://www.larrysanger.org/roleinwp.html --Larry Sanger 22:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, would it be that bad to say, "Jimbo Wales founded Wikipedia, along with Larry Sanger, and dozens of other volunteers?" Titoxd^(?!?) 03:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] That's our hairsplitter for us...

This thread was started by indefinitely-banned Amorrow (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) aka Fplay (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) aka Pinktulip (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) aka as various other titles. He is to be blocked on sight, and everything he does is to be reverted. I've removed the entire thread, as it looks as if all the different IPs came from the same user. Musical L inguist 20:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Jimbo-wales---fosdem-2005.jpg

This is a good image, but most of it is empty space. I was going to crop it myself, but since it's JPEG and since I'll almost certainly degrade the quality when I save the cropped version, I'd rather let someone who knows the basics of working with JPEG images do it. The image would look much better cropped, as it would leave more space on the left for text and would display a larger thumbnail in the article. Richard001 22:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Save it as a PNG; lossless, so no degradation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.251.125.85 (talk) 09:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Picture of the Year 2006 - voting is open

Voting is open until Feb 14th for the election of the 10 finalists of the competition Commons:Picture of the Year/2006. The final will take place from 17-28 Feb. We would be honoured with your vote. Alvesgaspar 14:03, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Someone is creating re-directs to Jimmy Wales

Please see the history diffs. Sorry about the db-attack on the article. One of the re-directs put the tag here it appears. First redirect was at 18:02 local (about 58 minutes ago). Second one at 17:39 local. May have been one more in between. All the re-directs are not showing up in on my Watchlist. Very sophisticated user/vandal at work. Ronbo76 03:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

No there's nothing sophisticated about it at all. Just garden variety, moronic page move vandalism. Although this one managed to get more page moves done than usual before being stopped. older ≠ wiser 03:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boomis babe jpg in article

Probably should be deleted as the image does not appear or is nominated for deletion. Ronbo76 01:54, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:BLP and its treatment of Presumption in favor of privacy

Here is what WP:BLP#Privacy of birthdays says:

Privacy of birthdays Wikipedia includes exact birthdates for some famous people, but including this information for most living people should be handled with caution. While many well-known living persons' exact birthdays are widely known and available to the public, the same is not always true for marginally notable people or non-public figures. With identity theft on the rise, it has become increasingly common for people to consider their exact date of birth to be private information. When in doubt about the notability of the person in question, or if the subject of a biography complains about the publication of his or her date of birth, err on the side of caution and simply list the year of birth rather than the exact date.

Now, please see the Ralph Alvarez's diff where the category for Date of birth missing was removed.

In Wales' case, it is very possible/probable that he considers exact date of birth to be private information (my emphasis which comes from the WP:BLP paragraph above). Furthermore, it is known that he has indicated the exact date is incorrect in public accounts.

Now, if we to follow the last statement in the cited WP:BLP paragraph, only his year of birth should be listed. I agree with the recent post to this talkpage by user:Everyking that Mr. Wales should make his preference known either via the means of contact in WP:BLP. Then, either he or someone from the WP:BLP admin board should post here exactly what birthdate info should be posted to this article.

Based upon the last statement in the WP:BLP Privacy of birthdays, I will now revert the birthdate to the year only and place a non-printing statement next to this info. Ronbo76 14:46, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

The problem is one of hypocrisy: This site divulges tens of thousands of other exact birthdays , criminal records, marital infidelities etc., of living people, often reveling in the notion that permission is not necessary.--64.9.237.117 17:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

No, it's a unique facet of Wikipedia. This is the free encyclopedia built on user edits. Anyone is free to edit any article (provided it is not protected). If you look at this page's fourth tag, a bio tag header, and/or that of any other talkpage bio tag header, they read:

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

Most editors that I know along with myself follow that paragraph's guidelines as best we can. Unfortunately, we cannot be everywhere and sometimes stuff or bad edits fall through the cracks. Poorly source info or slander in the articles I watch is hammered out or goes to the noticeboard. If you know of any bio containing items you allege, I encourage you to click on the noticeboard link and submit a report. I can tell you honestly that when I first made a report, I was very impressed by the noticeboard editor who dealt with the problems I noted within minutes of submission. Ronbo76 18:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but how is Mr. Wales "marginally" notable? Little things like this are distracting from more important content matters on the article. Just H 18:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

There is no mention in my post that he is marginally notable (but I will cover that in the next paragraph for educational purposes). If you have WP:BLP on your watchlist like I do and follow its talkpage discussion, here is the paragraph that several leading BLP editors use in citing the paragraph I did: Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons#Dates of birth for living persons. In a nutshell, here is the key statement that is cited in removing exact birthdates: Absent such evidence, we ought to have a presumption toward privacy and ought not to be disclosing someone's exact birthdate.

There also has been discussion about changing the words about marginally notable to a better term that connotates what level of notability should be used as the threshold. As with any talkpage for discussion of an improvement to a key policy, that discussion has lapsed and as not been seen as keen. In effect, BLP editors would rather err on the side of privacy for those notable individuals who are not full media types (meaning they have chosen to divulge their private life details by virtue of the concept of are they are a semi-private individuals caught up in the bigger media market). I probably am not conveying the total or best interpretation but trying to give fellow editors a view shared by other editors.

My prime reason for putting here on the talkpage improvement is to show other editors/readers that I am not doing this on a whim but with guidance that I have seen in the treatment of other bios that I watch. As with any other article that an editor makes a contribution or revert to, it should be discussed on the talkpage if it could be deemed controversial. Hope this helps. Cheers, Ronbo76 22:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Parroting . . .

Bomis was a "guy-oriented" search engine that often sold erotic materials, and it was described as similar in nature to "Maxim" magazine with sometimes scantily clad women.

Wales described Bomis as a "guy-oriented search engine", with a market similar to that of Maxim magazine.[4]

Er, just a thought, but shouldn't the "encyclopedic" content not sound like a parroting back of Jimbo's own words? --Dookama 23:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bomis

Should it be included that Bomis has been described as softcore pornography in the career section? I think it deserves at least a passing mention like I put in this revision (which was reverted). --Dookama 23:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

There were no objections, so I added something in. --Dookama 11:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sister

He has siblings, whose friends he posts pictures of on his Flickr account. Sadly, Flickr's not a reliable source, I presume. -- Zanimum 17:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] wikipedia revisionism

writing under this section is the funniest $h!t i've ever read in wikipedia. just wanted to point that out. 128.253.53.140 22:28, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article

Article —The preceding unsigned comment was added by EnviroGranny (talk • contribs) 10:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] "Role in founding" and NPOV

Danski14 recently changed "best known for his role in founding" in the introduction to "best known for helping found". We all know that there is a dispute between Larry Sanger and Jimmy Wales about who founded Wikipedia: Wales says he was the founder and Sanger was an employee who helped, whereas Sanger says that they founded Wikipedia together. I think that the NPOV policy requires that the article not take sides in this debate. Therefore, I suggested the "role in founding" wording for the introduction, since both Sanger and Wales would agree that Wales had a role in founding Wikipedia: they just differ on what Sanger's role was. I think that "helping found" is too POV towards Sanger's perspective. Similarly, I think that the statement "Wikipedia was founded by Larry Sanger and Jimmy Wales" is too biased; the article presents the two men's claims, and the early evidence on the subject, in the "Wikipedia revisionism" section. If people think that the article can say "founded by Sanger and Wales", they should explain how that's compatible with the NPOV policy (and yes, I do realize that the NPOV policy was written by Sanger). —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:59, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree your phrase best summarizes Jimmy Wale's position without going into any details. Like you I was also worried about NPOV, but I can't say I helped much, looking back there is not really any connotative difference between "role in founding" and "helping found"... but I think your's sounds better. The stuff I had read on the founding was Sanger's account, ([1]), and I somehow felt perhaps he wasn't getting enough credit. However, I think you make a good argument overall...Sanger's role is explained later on. Danski14 15:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] chess?

Is it true that Wales likes to play chess? If so, that should be added to the article. Bubba73 (talk), 16:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

That seems a little esoteric, but it probably should be in "Hobbies and Interests" or something ^TalkFissionfox 11:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Have you got a citation? And even if it was true it probably shouldn't go in the article. Picaroon 01:29, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Duplicates of sections

Why is the Bomis search engine listed in two different sections (career and controversy)??? Isn't one enough? ^TalkFissionfox 11:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-locked?

Just a suggestion: if you look at the history for this page it seems like there are dozens of acts of vandalism every single day. Wouldn't it just make sense to make it semi-locked os only users with a certain level fo experience can edit it? it seems like non-users (only shows IP) are the ones committing vandalism. I know people are diligently checking for vandalism, but there's just so much of it everyday. I mean just a few moments ago it said "and hired a whore to be its editor-in-chief." Davelapo555 15:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I requested it to be semi protected, and my request was approved. DietLimeCola 16:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

That should avoid most if not all of the vandalism that was occuring daily on the page. Davelapo555 18:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] yo

after spending countless, and mostly fruitless hours on myspace, i wanted to let you know that i am now able to put my rhetoric and articulated vocabulary to good use. this place is well, good. the_undertow ^talk 10:10, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Putting an edit-counter?

Hi Jimmy, I use another wiki called Shetlopedia, is there anyway of getting an edit counter on my page over there? JAStewart 16:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

As it says on the top of the page, Jimbo Wales rarely looks here. This is the encyclopedic article about him, not a place to talk to him. I'd advise either asking him on User talk:Jimbo Wales, which is the place to talk to him. Or, you could ask your question in the Village Pump, where someone might know the answer to your question, and it'll certainly be answered faster there. Pyrospirit ^{Flames Fire} 14:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stalking allegations

This and this are clearly unacceptable and bizarre personal attacks. I dont believe DXRAW has any justification for such a bad faith claim and would like him to calm down and stop making wild accustions. I have a history of editing this article and this is pretty much a criminal accusatioon he is making against me, SqueakBox 21:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Only famous people can be stalked or have criminal accusations made about them... and you're not famous, no matter how often you visit Jim Wales's article. 207.69.140.35 00:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Um, no. Regular people can be stalked and have criminal accusations made on them--$UIT 00:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Wikipedia founder says he's no businessman"

Was rather surprised to see this article in the nz herald [2], he is after all a rather succesfull businessman! Probably should be included into the article his views expressed in this article about him. Mathmo ^Talk 14:32, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy - Porn Oriented Site (or whatever)

Fair enough, these controversies should be included in the Controversy section, however shouldn't we delete the same content in the Career Section then? I don't think we should be repeating the same allegation twice in one article.

Just a thought.

[edit] Discussion moved from Talk:Essjay controversy

To accomadate relevant discussion, I've moved all further discussion related to Wales and Sanger from Talk:Essjay controversy to here. Since users at that talk page have consensus to discuss it here, restoring it to Essjay's article will result in a block for disruption! --w^L^{<speak·check>} 22:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] continuation of above topic

I added back in the comments that were deleted. This is an ongoing discussion to improve this article. :) - Mr.Guru (^talk/_contribs) 06:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

First off, Quack - you only needed to click on the word "show" in the above box for this all to come to view again. Secondly, my position has not changed, Quack. I can live with "a" in and I can live with "a" out. What is not helpful is the continued edit war about this. There are at least as many articles referring to Wales as [no "a"] founder of Wikipedia as there are of him being referred to in any other way. The "a" is not there now. If you would prefer, we can get rid of the Sanger reference and drop any comment about Wales' "founding" role in Wikipedia. The article is not deficient or factually incorrect with the absence of the "a". And most importantly, it is not an article about either Jimmy Wales or Larry Sanger. The issue you are raising here belongs in either one or both of those articles. This is bordering on disruption again, Quack. Please stop. (Apologies to tjstrf for not keeping quiet) --Risker 06:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

There may well be more articles that do not use an "a" but they appear to be the more recent ones. Whether you like it or no Quack has a point about revisionist history. David D. (Talk) 07:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

He can have whatever WP:POINT he wants, but the dispute is absolutely immaterial to the subject of this article. --tjstrf talk 07:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

This issue has been brought up at at the administrators' noticeboard. Although there is no problem about disputing who is the founder of WP, what is disruptive is how it is posted at a place where it has nothing to do with the subject of the article. Please take it to the proper channels, and this article will move along with whatever decision is made there. --w^L^{<speak·check>} 07:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I think you posted te wrong link since that is about his right to blank his own talk page, nothing to do with the "a". And Quack is correct, this is relevent to the article. It implies that Wales is THE founder which is arguably false. If you want that sentence in the article then you have to address the issue. Best thing is to just remove the statement, just state what Wales is now, not what he was or claims he was. As you say, Wales' history at wikipedia is irrelevent, who is now is not. David D. (Talk) 07:54, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

partial reset of indents - Actaully that post is a cross-link between this, and the post I made further down. What weight does Wales being the founder of Wikipedia have with Essjay lying about his credentials on Wikipedia? --w^L^{<speak·check>} 08:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

In Wales's case, it matters because he is the ~~godking~~ community head for Wikipedia, and that not mentioning this would be a rather glaring deficiency. It also is instrumental to explaining some of the other text on the page. If we cut out the mentions of his Wikipedia role, then it doesn't show how he had the authority to ask Essjay to step down from his Wikipedia positions.

[edit] His founder status or his CEO-like status?

My edits were revert with the following edit summary.

08:10 . . (+517) . . Tjstrf (Talk | contribs) (because his Wikipedia founder status (whether shared, sole, or whatever) is instrumental to his appearance on this page.)

Now I'm confused. How is his founder status relevent? Surely it is the fact that he is de facto in charge that brought him here? David D. (Talk) 08:17, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

See my reply I just made above in #continuation of above topic. --tjstrf talk 08:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Your explanation does not explain why his role as founder needs to be mentioned. It is his role now that is important to know. That he is founder is incidental. David D. (Talk) 13:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

You have a very good point, David D. So far the only "official" title I can find for Wales is Chairman Emeritus of the board of the Wikimedia Foundation. Any suggestions on wording to take that mouthful and make it useful? "God-king" seems so unencyclopedic. Risker 14:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Monarch? :) Actually, I had not realised he had no official position in the wikipedia foundation. So that does make the issue a little more complicated. David D. (Talk) 16:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

How is Chairman Emeritus of the Wikimedia Foundation not an official position? No, it doesn't make the issue more complicated. As stated at the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustee's page: "Jimmy Wales is an Internet entrepreneur and wiki enthusiast, and founder of the Wikipedia project...In 2003, Jimmy set up the Wikimedia Foundation, a Tampa-based non-profit organization, to support Wikipedia and its sister projects."--Leflyman^Talk 16:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

How can Chairman Emeritus of the Wikimedia Foundation be an official position? For this article the point is to cite his current postion. He may call himself Emeritus but that implies an honorary title after retirement (and that is true with respect to the board). But if he is in control, and he behaves as if he is, he cannot be emeritus with repsect to the foundation; apparently he does not define his role in the foundation with a title. David D. (Talk) 17:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

He is a member of the Board of Trustees and a director of the Wikimedia Foundation. Those are official positions. "Chairman Emeritus" is an honorary title. [3]. Sam Korn ^(smoddy) 22:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I suppose I was hoping that we could avoid discussing the whole Wikipedia "command structure" in the article. A Chairman Emeritus of an overseeing board, directing day-to-day operations to the point of asking for the resignation of individual volunteers, is somewhat outside of the usual scope of that role. An option might be to call him the Chairman Emeritus of the Foundation and de-facto leader of the English Wikipedia project, but I haven't found any WP:RS that call him anything other than founder or chair so far. Given the contentiousness of this specific point, I am hesitant to change it without a solid reference. --Risker 17:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

The recent (March 25) AP article by Brian Bergstein refers to Wales as "de-facto leader" while playing up the division with Sanger--"(in fact, call him [Larry Sanger] a co-founder, although that, like many things within Wikipedia, is disputed)", as a promo piece for Citizendium -- it makes for good copy. The article has been run under numerous headlines: "Duelling Wikipedians" in the Globe and Mail; Citizendium's Solution for Wikipedia's Woes at TechNewsWorld. A follow-up AP article recounts the controversy of the founding, as headlined, for example "Citizendium Head's Role in Founding Wikipedia Unclear" (at FoxNews).--Leflyman^Talk 17:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Bergstein, Brian. "Sanger says he co-started Wikipedia", Associated Press, March 25, 2007. Retrieved on April 1, 2007. “The nascent Web encyclopedia Citizendium springs from Larry Sanger, a philosophy Ph.D. who counts himself as a co-founder of Wikipedia, the site he now hopes to usurp. The claim doesn't seem particularly controversial - Sanger has long been cited as a co-founder. Yet the other founder, Jimmy Wales, isn't happy about it.” — Brian Bergstein.

Here is another recent source to overview. Respectively, :) - Mr.Guru (^talk/_contribs) 17:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Stick to the question, Quack. This thread is about what to call Jimbo if we are not referring to him as founder. Do you have any additional reliable sources that discus Jimmy Wales's current role in Wikipedia? Risker 18:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Whales "the de facto head of Wikipedia". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by C.m.jones (talk • contribs) 18:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

The concern is that while "de facto head" (Latin: "in fact") is technically correct in describing the nebulous authority that Wales wields, the use of "de facto" in leadership roles has a somewhat illegitimate connotation. See: De_facto#Politics. --Leflyman^Talk 19:12, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I like nebulous, can we use that? :) David D. (Talk) 19:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

De facto is probably the right word; that is an article requiring cleaning up and is full of POV. Certainly the phrase is used much more benignly than is suggested in the politics section of that article, even in politics. Risker 19:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

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